Statins for Dyslipidaemia-an article by 2 Cardiologists

[thesadoc@yahoo.co.uk]

For an interesting read on Statins in the management of dyslipidaemia, and their "safety" and the benefits of "agressive LDL-C lowering", see (www.medicineweekly.ie) and click on the above subject by Dr. Carl Vaughan and Dr.John O'Sullivan.
Any comments please?

[sos_group_owner]

Re: Poll

I think you might get responses to your poll if you ask a question, then offer a Yes or No option.

My replies are NO and NO.
This is the same data that is reguritated CONTINUALLY.
Not one mention of "inflammation".

Fran

[Darrell]

I have always been amused by the phrase "true facts". It reminds me of the assertions "Let me tell you the honest truth..." and "To tell you the truth..." and equally sets off alarm bells in my brain.

[carbuffmom]

Perhaps, if ALL doctors who prescribe statins were made aware of the growing list of adverse effects and the growing occurances of such and made to take them seriously, we all wouldn't be in the mess we are today. Rechallenging people with other statins and adding zetia (or similar drugs) should be discouraged. Doctors need to be on the lookout for AEs and need to be educated to do so.

[shawk]

I suppose I was very lucky...the cardiologist I saw was great...he made it very clear that statins are his last recommendation...

After he cleared my heart and certain arteries he essentially mandated the following life style changes I had to do:

1)Stop all statins and other meds, including tylenol, asprin etc, if I felt pains he suggested a strong dose of Tummeric(yes the spice) which is a all natural analgesic better than aspirin. My Chiropractor also advised this..
2)Stop smoking-I have
3) Increase my exercise, especially cardio-I have and burn up to 1500 to 1800 calories a week.
4) More Omega 3
5) More veggies and fruits and lean proteins
6) no more processed or refined carbs...no gluten carbs....gluten he said will gum up the arteries and the ventricles of the heart...


I was astounded that this DOC was very non meds oriented...I have since referred him 10x and everyone says the same thing....He cleared my heart and arteries...I have no blockages or thickening...

I just had my blood check again after 60 days and the results are GREAT!!!

pre-advicor levels(note-my orignal GP mixed up my blood test and read me someone elses...he first stated my TC was 238, tris of 289, LDL of 172, I fired him and sent complaints to the state board of medicine)

Body weight-190
TC-141
LDL-71
HDL-31
VLDL-39
Tri's-199

Levels after changing diet, stopping smoking and vigorius cardio exercise

Body weight-175
TC-100
LDL-42
HDL-56
VLDL-2
Tri's-75

My liver enzymes are back to optimal levels and my iron (ferrous) count is also optimal...certain supplements also helped my liver...I also did a 7 day cleanse which everyone should do...

Folks eating right, stopping smoking/drinking , exercise and supplements does work...I am not trying to brag, but trying to show that "meds" & "pills" do not substitue good lifestyle changes....and that making the right lifestyle changes will absolutely work...I still have 10lbs to drop for my target weight....One thing that is helping the wieght loss is a blood test my chiropractor did, that showed my thyroid was not working 100% and that my metabolism was having issues...The chirp put me on certain supplements that correct thryroid issues and jump start my metabolism...all natural ones.....

Good luck to everyone!!!

[stina]

Well done shawk. Yes, if everybody could be lucky enough to get a doctor that was well informed and actually looked at the individual patient and their needs rather than treating everybody the same. Heaven help you if your cholesterol is a tiny bit over 200, you are told unless you take statins, well you have to face the consequences! When are doctors going to realise that they have to get the facts right before prescibing statins that could totally ruin somebodys life? shawk, you mentioned keeping off gluten carbs. Is oats not part of that family. I have heard that oats and oat bran is very got for cholesterol. Also you say your TC is 100, that seems terribly low to me. Is that correct?

[shawk]

Hi Stina,

It is not about luck...I think we all have been conned and you have to take care of yourself...you have to educate yourself and then ask the right questions, you have to interview your health care provider....it is sad we have to...

Medical Doctors say TC counts of 200 or below are "optimal" levels, but that depends entirely on what the LDL count is....

For example:
My Dad has a TC of 205 his LDL is 145 his HDL is 60

All the Docs and even the heart assocaition state and MANDATE! that a TC count of under 200 is OPTIMAL, yet they also state that LDL of between 130-158 is "BORDERLINE HIGH" for Heart disease and in most times will begin statin therapy if the the LDL is even boderline high

So the pharamacons now have our medical community contridicitng themselves....it is silly, but no laughing matter as you well know....

The guidelines for optimal LDL levels is 130 and below, but if you have LDL of 130 and LDL of 60 to 65 (which is very desireable) and your VLDL is 10...guess what?

your TC is between 200 to 205 and you are now in a grey area, becase the 200 level quoted actually says "200 or lower is optimal" so you may have "optimal" LDL levels and "optimal" HDL levels but a Dr. who is blinded by the pharamacons, may opt to put you on statin therapy with a "less" potent statin like Advicor for 60 days, when really all you needed to do was exercise, eat better and make some lifestyle changes....

Oh and please remember it is not the Medical Association that comes up with Cholestrol Levels...they are formulated and dictated to the MA by the pharamacons!!!!!

I am not trying to be verbose sorry...

Now lets compare the above with what Naturalists, good chiropractors or Holistic healers say...

First, many agree that chol/tri's are able to be lowered naturally...it takes longer but the results can be dramatic if you are willing to let go and really research and want to change your lifestyle...

Second, Get a darn good 52 point blood test...the medical community does not do this, they focus on one issue...high cholestrol could be caused by a low functioning thyroid or metabolic issues....that certain natural supplements or foods can correct....

Third, My Chiropractor who is also a licensed nutrionist, holistic and naturalist believes that Cholestrol is different in everyone....you cannot state that an "optimal" TC level for everyone is below 200....He really gets angry at such an arrogant assumption....

It was his 52 point blood test that proved my thyroid was not functioning correctly and that I had metabolic issues because of my smoking....

For my body type and metabolic rate, which is now much better and is still improving to my pre-smoking days and a host of other information he gleaned from the 52 point blood test, hair test and bowel test is that a TC level of 100 or less is fine with me....and is what my body is accustomed to before the 15 years of smoking and other abuse I put my body through....now he believes that my TC count will go up slightly to 109 becaue he wants my HDL up to 65....

Stina, what I have found is that you can pull up what a bad TC level is but have you ever been able to find any info on what healthy TC ranges are...I could not find anything that told me a TC count of 100 was bad.....

The paharmacon media machine distorts and contradicts all in the name of SALES!!!!

I think this very long post and answer is simple...a TC count is going to vary from person to person and it is very arrogant and very alarming that the pharamacons assume that a TC count below 200 is good for "EVERYONE"

As far as Gluten...oats do not contain gluten unless they are milled by equipment that also mill gluten containing wheat, etc....



Last item, My old medical doctor totally screwed up...the kicker is the DR found my original report and it was still very high....WHY?

Because they drew the blood and it was not centrifuged before they sent it off to be tested and the sample was not tested for 5 days!!!!!....I have researched this and guess what...it casues the blood to oxidize....and will raise blood sugar and TC levels...if it is centrifuged then it is ok....

*note* ask your DOC who is testing the blood and where and if it is centrifuged....

hope all is well with you stina!

[sos_group_owner]

Hi Shawk,

Could you tell us more about:
"I also did a 7 day cleanse"
AND
"One thing that is helping the wieght loss is a blood test my chiropractor did, that showed my thyroid was not working 100% and that my metabolism was having issues...The chirp put me on certain supplements that correct thryroid issues and jump start my metabolism...all natural ones....."

The supplement you're taking for thyroid... does it contain "iodine"?
When at our Chirp's ofc, there was this article on the table: "Iodine for Optimal Health"
http://www.draieta.com/IODINE.html

Fran

[stina]

Hi shawk, I know that we have to take care of and educate ourselves, now perhaps more that ever. I am "thankful" for the doctor that scared me half to death with his prognose. Because of this I started to look at the internet to try and find some answers to the cholesterol question. Had he not been so insistent ,maybe I had accepted the fact that statins was the only answer. I think many people that consult a doctor takes his word for anything he tells them. After all they are trained and knows everything there is to know about health matters :roll: I recently sent some questions to another doctor and he told me this. Most women in their 50´s have a cholesterol of around 250 and if you look at a 10 year risk chart it shows that if you have normal bloodpressure and don´t smoke then the risk of dying from a heart desease,with numbers around 250, is 2%. They would only consider treatment with someone who had a risk of 5% or higher. So what he was saying was, in my case, a 10 year chance of NOT dying from heart desease and taking statins would increase from 98.0 - 98.3! Amazing is it not? He also said that there is no scientific controlled study that shows women have any advantage of preventative medication apart from possibly someone with diabetes or someone who already suffers from some kind of heart desease. His advice was stay off statins eat a healthy diet with lots of fruit vegetables and fish and exercise in form of daily walks. Sounds good to me! I have now been off statins for two months and must say I feel really good. My backache has gone and aching legs, I also had from time to time, is gone. Thanks shawk for the info about oats. Like to have my porridge in the morning with a bit of honey and some flax seeds Yum! I think we are all doing pretty good between us don´t you? Thank goodness for a forum like this is all I can say. :D

[tex62]

You are both right about the error of managing coronary health “by the numbers”, especially the Total Cholesterol (TC) number. My doctor was alarmed because my TC was around 250 and my LDL was slightly high, so I started taking Zocor. I never had the muscle aches and pains, but had difficulty breathing which is one of the listed side effects that most doctors don’t know about. I haven’t taken it for a year and realize now that I was remiss in not doing more thorough research before I started taking the drug. Total cholesterol (TC) is calculated by adding the numbers from HDL, LDL, and 20% of triglycerides. Almost a year after stopping statins, all of my numbers are within the normal range except my TC which is just under 250. My HDL is very high and always has been at around 100. Most likely, the only way that I could get my TC level to less than 200 would be to reduce my HDL which is highly undesirable. There is no history of coronary disease in my family. Like you, I feel great with the knowledge that I have, eating right, and exercising regularly.

[stina]

tex62, thats is very interesting what you say about having difficulties breathing. I am a flute player and started noticing that I could not sustain my notes as long as I used to, but never put it down to that it might be a side effect to Zocor. Well I never... Now after having been off them for two months, I have noticed that my lung capacity is much better and can sustain the flow of air much longer. That is incredible. I am gobsmacked! There seems to be an awful lot we are not told about regarding side effects. Again, thank heaven for this forum.

[shawk]

Hi Fran,


The 7 day cleanse is a cell/colon cleanse....

It involves drinking a veggie broth made from carrots, celery, spinach and parsley and eating nothing but fruits and veggies for 7 days and only drinking the broth, clean purified water, and fresh juice made with a juicer and taking your supplements. The main juice is a minimum of 8oz of carrot juice a day during the cleanse...(Carrot juice is not advisable for diabetics because of the high glucose) Carrot juice is known to purge the liver of all posions, especially when combined with Chlorella(which is a wonderful food source you can take in capsule form)

Every morning before breakfast you drink a tonic of 1/2 half of a fresh lemon, 1 teaspoon of cayenne pepper in 8oz of warm water....

Needless to say by day 2 and 3 your bowels and kidneys are moving, by day 4 your intestines are also moving by day 5 the major "moving" is over, by day 6 and 7 your energy level will be sky high....and you will have purged a lot of fecal matter and toxic build up out of your system...including at the cell level...

Do not be alarmed by the amount , color, shape or smell of your movements....do not be alarmed if you lose some weight(I know a person that lost 15 pounds doing the cleanse, because of all the toxins and built up fecal matter in their intestines) this is natural and is good for you...If you are not taking supplements....drink a lot of the broth (which has needed minerals in it) you may even get headaches and feel real bad between day 2 and 5 the bad symptoms stop after day 5.....

Without getting to graphic one movement of mine had fecal shaped like my intestine, that is how powerful it was....This cleanse will also clean your system of any prescribed meds...the broth actually works at the cell level....the fruit and veggies help the colon area, and the carrot juice, beet juice and daily lemon/pepper tonic work on the gall bladder, liver, kidneys and heart.....

My chirp does this cleanse 4x a year or once a QTR(every 3 months) He stated you should do it at least 2x a year....

I will post the broth recipe and the complete regime of the cleanse in a few days...

yes Iodine is one of the supplements for the thryroid, another is energenics( I will post what is in them when I post the cleanse recipe/regime

[sos_group_owner]

Thank you Shawk... look forward to more info. Fran