What, exactly, has this drug done to our bodies?

[cjbrooksjc]

I have read many of the posts since finding this forum, and am much better informed about how to effectively recover from the effects of Statin use. What I don't find clear (or haven't found yet) is: What has happened? What is the physical condition of my mucles and (esp) my hip, shoulder and elbow joints today as a result of taking Statins? WHY did my hair begin to shed at a much faster rate? WHY is my skin become dry and scaly? WHY did I suffer those terrible cramping sessions. WHY did I gain so much weight? WHAT is the physical process Statins follow that our bodies resent so? Can someone, in fairly lay terminology, spell this out for me. I'm hoplessly right-brained in my approach to most things, and though I find a wealth of WHAT to take and HOW to proceed information in the forum, WHY is driving me wacky.
Brooks

[Darrell]

I found this with Google and I think it sums things up pretty well for you:

"Cholesterol has many important functions in the human body. It forms the lining of every cell wall in the body as well as forming a protective coat (myelin sheath) around each of your peripheral nerves. Cholesterol is also the substrate from which the hormones testosterone, estrogen and cortisone are made. It is so important to our survival that our livers manufacture it. In fact, 75% of the cholesterol in our blood stream comes from the liver."
[http://www.spineuniverse.com/displayarticle.php/article1130.html]

[cjbrooksjc]

Darrell: Thank you for your response. I understand fairly well the role of cholesterol. What I want to know is the role of Statin drugs and how the effect presents physically...are the bursas drying or shrinking; are the cells now inefficient; are the nerves stripped of myelin (sp?); generally what does the body of a Statin sensitive person look like, internally, after taking Statins, and incidentally - why are some persons seemingly impervious.
Brooks

[Ray Holder]

I have given this a lot of thought recaently and I believe that the main reason that all sorts of problems arise is that Coenzyme Q10 production in the body is reduced by statins as it is made in the same pathway as cholesterol.

What the drug makers have kept from us is the fundamental need that every smallest part of the body has for Q10, which carries energy into every cell to enable it to function. At the same time it has a remarkable redox function, which means that it is extremely good at taking oxygen into those places where it is needed, and replenishing that supply by removing oxygen from those places where oxidisation has been taking place, eg LDL cholesterol.

The energy starvation that ensues is a slow and insidious widespread process and may affect almost anything, large users of energy such as the heart, liver, kidneys, pancreas and muscles being the most vulnerable. It is difficult to visualise how this is happening, and in a crude way, you could imagine an electrical machine or a computer which needs a flow of electric current (electrons) 0to work, and this is carried on wires or printed circuits. The body's energy is ultimately converted into electron and proton transfer into the microscopic cells of which all organs are made, but there is no wiring to carry the flow, and CoQ10, a substance needing constant renewal, has this remarkable ability, but any deficiency results in energy starvation of groups of cells and their probable death.

This basic fact of life has been hidden from public knowledge by the drug companies, as supplementation of natural Q10 loss through age has such beneficial effects, it is not patentable and thus not capable of generating huge profits. It would let the cat out of the bag to acknowledge that their wonder drugs damage such a necessary substance, so it has been made to appear as some herbal or alternative medicine, NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE REAL TRUTH !!

Ray

[garystil]

Ray,

I don't think I'm deficient in Q10 but my shoulder is playing up after having given statins away for causing digestive problems 6 months ago.

If I take Q10, (even though I may not need it), can it adversely affect me, or alternatively, can I become dependent on it?

Cheers,
Gary

[Ray Holder]

Gary
I once read that excess Q10 will only result in expensive urine, I don't think it will affect you in any other way unless, perhaps, you took very large quantities which perhaps might make your Q10 regulatory system think it could shut down production. I don't believe you will reach that point. I only built up to my quite large dose of 600 mg daily through need, which became evident as time went by.

Ray

[cjbrooksjc]

Ray: Thank you. That does help. The remaining question I have in this area is: are the damaged cells/areas/organs able to rebuild over time to pre-Statin levels, or has the cell/area/organ been damaged at a level which prevents accurate replication resulting in permanent, irrecoverable damage?
One further question, please: is Acetyl L-Carnitine as different in it's effect from other L-Carnitine suppliments as I have been reading?

Brooks

[Biologist]

cjbrooksjc,

I'll say this: You're sure asking the right questions. It is what I am trying to figure out.

Biologist

[Ray Holder]

Dear Brooks

I cannot be sure of what happens, but I will tell you what I believe is going on. First the good news, I had a lot of muscle wastage, particularly on the top front of my right leg (quadriceps), that was due mainly to carnitine shortage, and came back to about the pre- statin size, it was already smaller than normal due to polio 50 years ago. My stomach muscles, also polio affected, were further damaged by the statin, size not visible so can only say how strong they felt. Improved only a small amount.

Carnitine production, very hard to say, muscle wastage CK test improved only slightly in 2 weeks on Q10 only, so some cells in that production process must have recuperated, but carnitine supplement has been necessary ever since to avoid muscle loss, so no more regeneration/recuperation there.

I stopped the statin for 14 months before I found out about Q10, and in that time everything only got worse, so Q10 production does not come back. things started to get better in a few days on Q10, but I find it essential now. I think it is very unlikely that Q10 will improve, it is made by a 17 stage , very vulnerable process needing about 8 vitamins /minerals. Also, as it declines over the lifetime from age 20, it would seem that it is the reason for problems in later years, so only supplementation will help.

Type 2 diabetes gains some help from Q10, but it is not a total cure, so some insulin production appears to resume, but this has only been observed in a few cases.

As for carnitine, I have found no benefit from the acetyl form, but I have a preponderance of type 1 muscle using fat/L carnitine as fuel, much type 2 having been lost to polio, so carnitine is needed to give me muscle action to a greater degree than in non-polios. Darrell and others find that either type works as well for them, as its main function seems not to be to fuel the muscle, glusose/insulin do that, but its second purpose of carrying waste products out of the muscle can be done as well by the acetyl form. I still believe that if muscle wastage has visibly occurred, then L carnitine may be necessary to get fat fuel through the membrane into the mitochondria, and avoid the muscle fibre being consumed as a last resort to keep muscle action going, in starvation mode.

That is how it as been for me, some postings have reported things getting better over time, but I had 4 years on simvastatin, and 14 months after with no supplementation, I may have come in too late.

Ray

[Biologist]

"The remaining question I have in this area is: are the damaged
cells/areas/organs able to rebuild over time to pre-Statin levels,
or has the cell/area/organ been damaged at a level which
prevents accurate replication resulting in permanent, irrecoverable
damage?"
--cjbrooksjc

______________________

Well, there's some upside potential:

Even if cellular mitochondria (the cells' power plants -- where the major issue probably lies) are permanently altered (and remain altered with replication) such that CoQ10 is no longer reliably synthesized due to statin damage, it may be a mute point since we are supplementing. And we will be supplementing for life anyway with our knowledge of the benefits of CoQ10 -- even if we had never used statins. So, perversely, statins may turn out to be helpful in that they have made us aware of CoQ10 and the fact that it drops off so much as we age. Some of us may even end up healthier than most in the end. And of course, this is even more so the case if turns out that there is no significant permanent damage to cells due to statins for most people.

The same may hold for Carnitine, who knows?

Due to Ray's logic, I buy L-Carnitine. Just got back from the health food store.

CoQ10 is pretty cheap at Sam's and WalMart. I hope it is not an inferior product because the stuff is a lot more expensive at other places.

I also bought Alpha Lipoic Acid just now as I have seen it discussed on this website. I guess I will do a little more research before taking it.

And I bought Cinnamon. My only concern (while not a big one) with cinnamon is that it may have the same mechanism of action as statins, as far as I know.

Now here's my experience with carnitine -- pretty odd. When I first started using it, I had been having a burning feeling in my left calf (in fact, all my issues are on the left side of my body). Just like clockwork it would start in the early evening starting soon after I quit statins. Never was all that painful, but noticeable. When I took carnitine, it quit within a day. A day later, for the first time, I got some real muscle pain in that calf. It was stiff too and lasted about 1 to 2 days. They went away -- forever. No burning, no pain. Have not had any such leg problems since. How's that for odd? I attribute it all to carnitine. The pain was actually a good sign as it turns out. What it showed me is that the stuff was biologically active / effective on me, even if its modus operandi was unexpected, to say the least. So, I keep using it.

Here's another one: After lifting weights a few weeks ago (early November) is when I had my "statin attack." Up until that time, just some fatigue, but that was the day that the floor fell through for me. (BTW, athletics and statins don't mix, and that has been known for some time in sports medicine apparently, I have since learned.) I got tingling fingers at the same time and nauseated and other symptoms. But here's the thing: that left shoulder, totally weak, was also numb. No pain, just numb, weak and stiff. In the last few days, guess what? No numbness anymore at all -- but PAIN. Once again, I see pain as good. I believe (or hope) the same phenomenon may be going on to some degree. Will see. Eventually I may try to chronicle all this stuff in one thread, but I may never get around to doing it. If not, at least there is this post...

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist and Ray: Thank you! Finally, some good information I can undersatnd and put to use- though everything I've read on the forum has been interesting and informative. I bought some L-Carnitine today and will add that to my growing supply of pills (all I used to take was a little Armour Throid). Not that I'm complaining... I still have a good deal of joint pain and can't use the fitness center, but I feel measurably better than I did 6 months ago; due largely to this forum, Doctor Graveline, and your recommendations/experiences. I'm still hopeful that I will continue improving over the next few months. Thank you all very much for your input. incidentally, I get my OTC meds from Nutraceutical Sciences (gonsi.com) and find them to be cost competetive with WalMart. My lay understanding of Acetyl vs. plain L-Carnitine was that one helps the cell burn fuel and the other helps the cell eliminate waste, at any rate I will take them both for a few weeks and see what happens. I'll wait to find out if the Alpha Lipoic Acid renders a favorable result before I add it to my fistful. Thanks again.

Brooks