WARNING! Technical paper!
*http://www.genesifter.net/web/Illumina_statin_muscle.pdf
This study shows that simvastatin (Zocor) was associated with a magnitude worse level of incidence of faulty gene expression compared with atorvastatin (Lipitor) and statin-free control group.
This stuff is an over-the-counter medicine in the UK!
Brian.
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In one respect Zocor is worse than Lipitor
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In one respect Zocor is worse than Lipitor
by Brian C. » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:49 am
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by cjbrooksjc » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:53 am
Brian: EIGHT WEEKS!? Document-able results in only eight weeks? What a travesty this drug is. Thanks for the link
Brooks
Brooks
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by Biologist » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:50 pm
Brian,
I read the pdf. Thanks. Good find. Also thanks for the warning. It was pretty heavy duty. Here's my take on it: It provides the mechanism for statin damage which is (at least in part) the undesirable increase or decrease in production of some proteins by "stimulating" the genes that encode for the given proteins. I sure like that idea, as bad as it is, better than screwing up the "master template" which is the DNA molecule itself (which is a basis for mutations). Inappropriate "readings" off the DNA are being done and translated into wrong and/or unnecessary "parts" (some of which are incorporated into cellular structures too, I would imagine, which is not a good thing). So, presumably, once the statin is discontinued, this "error" (i.e., "set of errors") can be fixed. It is kind of like running a car manufacturing plant and ordering parts from various suppliers to assemble the product. Some suppliers send more driver's side door handles than you could ever use and at the same time, there is not enough transmission fluid getting in on time. Just screws up the works -- some cars may end up with wrong door handles and oil rather than fluid in the transmission. They did not speak of permanent changes just the results of the influence they measured at the time. It would have been nice if they followed up in some months or years to see if biopsies showed normalization of gene expression after cessation of the statin (while some existing "product" in stock might still have the wrong handles even after some time to come...)
For other readers, keep in mind that "affecting gene expression" does not imply the genes in question are corrupted, but rather that there is an unnatural increase or decrease in production of that gene's protein.
I noticed several connective tissue genes and muscle genes being effected by Zocor, which sure rings true.
Biologist
I read the pdf. Thanks. Good find. Also thanks for the warning. It was pretty heavy duty. Here's my take on it: It provides the mechanism for statin damage which is (at least in part) the undesirable increase or decrease in production of some proteins by "stimulating" the genes that encode for the given proteins. I sure like that idea, as bad as it is, better than screwing up the "master template" which is the DNA molecule itself (which is a basis for mutations). Inappropriate "readings" off the DNA are being done and translated into wrong and/or unnecessary "parts" (some of which are incorporated into cellular structures too, I would imagine, which is not a good thing). So, presumably, once the statin is discontinued, this "error" (i.e., "set of errors") can be fixed. It is kind of like running a car manufacturing plant and ordering parts from various suppliers to assemble the product. Some suppliers send more driver's side door handles than you could ever use and at the same time, there is not enough transmission fluid getting in on time. Just screws up the works -- some cars may end up with wrong door handles and oil rather than fluid in the transmission. They did not speak of permanent changes just the results of the influence they measured at the time. It would have been nice if they followed up in some months or years to see if biopsies showed normalization of gene expression after cessation of the statin (while some existing "product" in stock might still have the wrong handles even after some time to come...)
For other readers, keep in mind that "affecting gene expression" does not imply the genes in question are corrupted, but rather that there is an unnatural increase or decrease in production of that gene's protein.
I noticed several connective tissue genes and muscle genes being effected by Zocor, which sure rings true.
Biologist
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by Brian C. » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:31 am
"Interesting" that they compared 40mg Lipitor against 80mg Zocor. In the UK prescribed quantities seem to be the other way around (at least they were in my case).
Too many studies seem to violate ceteris paribus.
Brian.
Too many studies seem to violate ceteris paribus.
Brian.
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by Brian C. » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:23 am
It's Latin meaning "The other being alike" (I mis-spelt the first word, it should have read 'ceterus').
So many of the comparative studies do not keep things (conditions) alike, e.g. the one referred to above where the dosage differs between the two groups.
Maybe if the Lipitor was also 80mg there wouldn't have been such a big difference.
Perhaps Pfizer paid for the study...
Brian.
So many of the comparative studies do not keep things (conditions) alike, e.g. the one referred to above where the dosage differs between the two groups.
Maybe if the Lipitor was also 80mg there wouldn't have been such a big difference.
Perhaps Pfizer paid for the study...
Brian.
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by catspajamas » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:58 am
Can only imagine what zocor did to me in the 4 years I was on it....I do know it compromised my immune system...damaged my nervous system..damaged muscles...I was a walking zombie...sometimes not walking ...could sleep for 24 hours a day...I am pretty much recovered except for my nervous system...cymbalta is helping with that...isn't that terrible that we will have to control the pain zocor and other statins caused with drugs like neurontin and cymbalta the rest of our lives?I am 68 and I know at some point in the future I will end up in a wheelchair because of the damaged nerves in my legs and feet....wonderful medicine..now I see china is counterfeiting lipitor and other drugs...just what the USA needs.....
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