muscle and joint pain

[Inpain]

I am a 51 year old female who has always been in good health. I've tried to follow a healthy diet and keep in shape. In July of 2004 my husband was diagnosed with a brain tumor and given 3 months to live. I quit my job to stay home with him and concentrate on getting the latest and best treatment for him. However, sadly in July of 2005, he passed away therefore I was not concerned when I began having chest pains -- I KNEW they were just from stress. Then in December of 2005, I discovered the pains were from more than stress and I had a cardiac stent put in. I left the hospital with a prescription for Lipitor even though my cholesterol level was normal. I also had prescriptions for Plavix and Quinapril. One month later, I began cardiac rehab and thought all the bad stuff was behind me. WRONG!! I contacted my cardiologist and explained my arms and legs were so heavy feeling, I could barely lift them. In addition, at night my arms would ache so that I could not sleep. He said I was just "out of shape" and the pain was from exercising. Deep down, I knew he was wrong, but he was the DOCTOR! On Tuesday, Feb. 14th (yeah -- Valentines Day!) I was hurting so badly in ALL my muscles and joints, I thought I would pass out from the pain. I looked at the patient information sheets I received with the medicines and the Lipitor sheet read, "if you experience muscle aches or joint pain, contact your doctor immediately". I did call the doctor and was told I probably had the flu and that I was just looking to find something wrong with me. (A) I've had the flu before and I knew what I was experiencing was NOTHING like the flu and (B) I've never been one to complain. I'm the one that never wants to bother anyone, so I suffer in silence. However, with the excruciating pain I was experiencing, I HAD to seek help. I did suffer until 3:00 am on THURSDAY morning when I finally called my daughter to drive me to the ER. After a battery of blood work and tests, no one can tell me what's wrong. [b]I cannot stand on my own -- my ankles and knees give out and I collaspe. Also, pain radiates from my feet all the way to my shoulders. I cannot lift my arms and I have a tingling sensation in my toes and fingers.[/b] I began researching Lipitor tonight. I will not take Lipitor again as I believe this is the reason for the pain. Will I recover? How should I proceed with the other meds, vitamins, supplements, etc?

[Tulip]

Dear Inpain,

Statins have never, ever, saved one single female life in all the mega trials performed. More female statin takers end up with myocardial infarctions than do controls on placebo. Please read dr Graveline's side carefully. You will find many helpful tips. Also try the website of Eddie Vos: ww.health-heart.org.

I wish you a full recovery!

Tulip.

[Tulip]

That should be: ww.health-heart.org

Tulip

[mousa]

Dear Inpain,

I do hope you are feeling better. If I were you I would see a neurologist, asap.

Keep in touch!

[tex62]

I'm so sorry for all that you've been through. If you haven't done so already, please click on the link at the top of this page to Dr. Graveline's articles. Specifically look at the article on Statin Alternatives and his discussion of CoQ10. He recommends larger doses for someone recovering from statin damage, which might be one of the key factors to recovery. Also look at this link ww.chfpatients.com/stew/coq10.htm and other references to CoQ10 and statin damage by Dr. Peter Langsjoen.

[mousa]

Please take the letter you wrote to the forum to your doctor. Tell him that you need answers. A referral to a neurologist could be very helpful.

You have a stent. Is is drug-eluting? You are on Plavix, Quinapril and Lipitor and various supplements. You must tell your doctor about the supplements. It is possible that the interaction of all these drugs and supplements are causing your problems. 'Google' Plavix and Quinapril.
And ask your cardiologist to explain everything in detail. Ask him why you are on Lipitor when cholesterols are normal.

Am sure you do know to watch for bruising while you are on Plavix and report it immediately.

It's tough just now but hang in there. Share your concerns with your friends and family and DOCTOR. Most people are very kind! Am sure that all will be well once the medicines get sorted out.

[mousa]

Have been reading your post again. Please go see a neurologist.
Sending Love and Prayers

[tex62]

Just another note from me too. I agree with mousa - take the information you posted on this site to a doctor and make sure that none of the other medications/supplements you are taking could be causing any of the adverse symptoms. Continue to gather information on your own so that you can discuss it with your doctor. You might have difficulty finding a doctor who will agree with you that the statins could have caused your problems. Be persistent and keep looking until you find a doctor that you feel comfortable with. Very best wishes to you.

[billcat]

Maybe my experience will be helpful to someone.

About 9 years ago, around age 52 or so, I was prescribed a minimal dose of Zocor when my cholesterol went a little above the then-defined upper range, to 215.

I thought it would be great to lower my cholesterol without changine my eating habits, as I love rich foods, butter, steaks, etc. The Zocor held my total cholesterol to below 170, often falling to 150. I continued to eat anything I wanted. I was living in Germany at that time, and loved bratwurst and salami too.

Shortly thereafter, I began having episodes of debilitating lower back pain, that would incapacitate me -- couldn't drive, could only sit, had to take massive doses of NSAID even to mute the pain. This after a lifetime of very healthy back functioning, in fact, very healthy overall bodily functioning.

I decided I must finally be getting old. There was no spinal or disc problem. I also began having knee problems, joint aches, particularly upon arising in the AM, could barely walk. Again, aging, I said.

I began seeing a chiropractor regularly, and later sought acupuncture for pain, as the back episodes become more frequent and more painful. I attribuated the increase to my being more sedentary as I got older. (Can you tell I had yet to develop and "alternate medicine" consciousness?)

Recently after hearing my sister complain of some of these symptoms in connection with her statin drug, I decided to try an experiement and see how I would react to not taking the drug anymore.

I checked with my doctor, and we agreed that I would discontinue it while he monitored my blood levels. I stopped taking it this past summer, June of '05, after 9 years use.

AFTER 4 WEEKS, I WAS ASTOUNDED !!!

At age 61, I felt already at least 10 years younger. I no longer had to creep up and down the stairs, able to bound up and down as I did when in my late 40s. My back pain has gone, despite some recent Home Improvement projects that involved much bending, twisting, and heavy lifiting. I sit in front of the computer for hours, and my back feels completely normal, no more muscle aches or pains. In the morning, I can walk downstairs normally, without hanging onto the rail.

My cholesterol has risen back to around 200, but of course that's now consider WNL, and all the other readings are also WNL.

I will never go back to these drugs, no matter what their other beneficial effects. i would rather feel like I'm 45, at 75, than live to 90 but feel 95 the whole time.

I realize that others have much higher lipid levels due to genetic or other factors, and might need to take the drugs, but I'd urge people to at least try alternatives if they feel like they're aging more than they'd like.

BTW, I recently tried taking Policosanol, and within a few hours began to have the same muscle and joint symptoms I had with Zocor, described above. They went away within a day when I didn't take any more of the supplement.

[sos_group_owner]

Re: I will not take Lipitor again as I believe this is the reason for the pain.
Will I recover? How should I proceed with the other meds, vitamins, supplements, etc?

Hi "Inpain",

Your story is the classic example of how "doctors do not listen to us".
The first thing your doctor should have done when you complained of
muscle pain was to do a CK or CPK blood test. Elevated levels can mean
that the statin drug of choice is doing damage to your muscles.
The CK/CPK test is not foolproof though, and if muscle pain persists the
doctor should do a muscle biopsy.

Now that you have stopped Lipitor, CoQ10 is one of the best anti-oxidants
to help repair statin damage. This essential nutrient is depleted by statins
and is the main reason for muscle aches/pain/damage and cognitive
decline.

The only known CoQ10 side effect is that it can lower BP, so if you take BP
meds you would want to monitor BP as you increase CoQ10 levels.

Start with 100 mg and increase until you obtain relief. You also need
some vitamin E for CoQ10 to metabolize properly. CoQ10 should be in
gel form (vs powdered). Vitamin E is available in so many forms. The
best is D-alpha (not Dl), with mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols (alpha,
beta, gamma, delta).

Vitamin C is excellent (ascorbic acid, not Ester-C).
The B vitamin are also very important: folic acid, B6 and B12.

Eddie Vos discusses nutritional supplements at this link:
ww.health-heart.org/vitamins.htm

Fran

[billcat]

sos_group_owner, why do you recommend ascorbic acid instead of ester-C? I just bought some of the latter because I heard on another board it's better.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi BillCat,

Eddie Vos (THINCS member) has an excellent list of:
"Recommended Supplements and Vitamins"
ww.health-heart.org/vitamins.htm

Eddie further explains Ester-C's marketing ploy
in his 31 Tips and Comments on Health & Heart Disease:
ww.health-heart.org/comments.htm
Page down to number 6.
Read all 31 tips when you get a chance.

Fran

[Serenity]

I am a 64-year-old well-educated professional woman, always healthy until I hit 60. I started Lipitor in 2000. I was a runner and a walker, but began having trouble with my Achilles tendons and knees, so I stopped running completely and only walked when tendons weren't hurting. Two years later, I injured my knees (both) at Tai Chi (doing it correctly). Xrays showed the cuff tendon (I don't know the medical name) at the knee between the two bones had ripped completely off on one knee and was in process on the other. I opted not to go for surgery.

The pain in my Achilles tendons continued to get worse until I was nearly crippled. I also was developing problems with pain in my hip.

Then, in 2003 I had to take new antibiotics (pneumonia) three times, and each time the pain in these tendons got worse. I finally got a diagnosis of torn Achilles and torn inner tendon at the hip. All the while I had thought the knees and hip pain was arthritis.

It was around this time that I noticed a side effect from Lipitor (which I had read but never seen) was muscle and joint problems. I immediately quit taking the Lipitor. I also had become exhausted and depressed, which I had no idea might be connected. After a year, I am getting stronger. I still have pain in these tendons, but not all the time and not as intense.

What I have done was try getting on 1/2 Lipitor 10 every other day. Within a week, the pain was worse in all my tendons. After two weeks taking Lipitor again, 1/2 every other day, I stopped again. In a week, the pain began to get better. Last week, I tried again, 1/2 Lipitor. The very next morning I woke up with pain and the Achilles troubled me for days. I don't know if Lipitor caused my problem (because Cipro and derivatives are being found to do the same kind of damage), but I know the Lipitor is either aggravating the damage or causing it.

No more. My short-term memory has improved only slightly.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi Serenity and Welcome to the forum,

Re: Your short-term memory has improved only slightly

My husband stopped Lipitor 20 mg over 18 months ago and still
has some short term memory loss, so I know how frustrating it
is.

Statins not only affect memory, but compromise our immune
system and could be one of the reasons for your bouts with
pnemonia.

Muscle and joint side effects are listed right on the drug package
insert and I just can't understand how doctors ignore this adverse
effect until serious or permanent damage is evident.

Has you doctor run any blood tests to check for muscle damage?
CK or CPK?
CK/CPK is not fool proof. It might be necessary to perform a
muscle biopsy to determine muscle damage.

It has not been proven that women benefit from lowering cholesterol.
Please read Dr Graveline's article... "Women and Statins":
http://www.spacedoc.net/women_statins.htm

Fran

[Dottore]

Dear inpain:
Eddie Vos maintains an excellent site and he is VERY WELL informed.
Fire your doctor NOW. He is not interested in you at all.
My suggestion:
Start the following regimen:
Co-enzyme Q-10 100 mg twice a day.
Vitamin C (sodium ascorbate powder preferred) to bowel tolerance for about 3 months, then either stay at that level or reduce to a less drastic 10 - 12 grams per day.
Alternate between 1 Tabspoon of flaxseed oil and virgin coconut oil (Mon F, Tue Co, Wed F etc), once a day.
Get a super multiple vit/mineral capsule per day (Carlson's two a day or twinlab in USA) and reduce intake of vegetable oils such as polyunsaturates and increase animal fats such as lard, beef drippings etc.
Look into the Weston A Price dietary recommendations.
To boost your Co-Q-10 intake (your most important nutrient at this stage) you can eat hamburger, prepared at home with about 20% beef heart (organic?) ground into it.
Overall, see that you boost your omega 3 and reduce your omega 6.
If you can obtain non GM Canola oil it would be a good oil .
Let me know if you need more info.
I see statin victims often and the stories are all similar. It is criminal to prescribe them.
Best
Dottore
P.S.: If you haven't done so, have your Serum Homocysteine measured.
Let me know.

[sos_group_owner]

Re: I see statin victims often and the stories are all similar.
It is criminal to prescribe them. Best, Dottore

G'Day Dottore,

Excellent advice, but I'm interested in knowing why you prefer
sodium ascorbate powder, instead of ascorbic acid.

Are you a naturopathic physician?

Fran

[Dottore]

I have found that (a terrible word) "patient compliance" is better with sodium ascorbate. Yes, ascorbic acid is a bit more "potent" but it is hard on the tooth enamel, tastes very sour and has to be well hidden in tomato juice or similar. There is no real problem with the sodium content of SA as it is rather small (and people actually can be sodium deficient) although I do stay away from Calcium ascorbate.

As a rule, I suggest a trial with AA. Switch to SA if they are not happy. We can buy ascorbic acid cheaper than sodium ascorbate, in bulk we pay about $ 11 for a kilo.

Best
Dottore