irvignia??

[peter s]

Was just reading about this supplement on the Life Extension website. Here are the claimed results. Is this too good to be true? See especially the chart on cholesterol, LDL, glucose and CRP reduction.

*http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=55&query=leptin&hiword=LEPTI%20LEPTINS%20leptin%20

[Biologist]

Peter,

That may be an important find. Thanks. I just emailed it to my doctor (in case he missed it). I will be discussing lab results with him in a few days (blood work from a hospital draw station and my own work with ZRT, an independent mail-in lab for the same tests via saliva testing and blood spot testing). He is up on hormonal issues (and that Life Extension group -- he receives their publications) and I will see what he has to say about the article and post a summary of his comments here

He liked the book I got to him last year by Gary Taubes (I believe the spelling is correct or close to it) called "Good Calories, Bad Calories" -- a pathetic title I'm sure was picked by a publisher to increase sales. A more fitting title would have been: "Endocrinology-based Disease Theory & Diet." But that would not have increased sales. Many who have bought the book simply are not educated in biology enough to understand it sufficiently. Those who are see the book as a major enlightenment. You may want get a copy.

Thanks again for the post.

Biologist

[peter s]

Yes I recall reading some reviews and excerpts in doing some research not too long ago, what he said makes sense but in practice carbohydrate restriction is so difficult, and as I recall he took a rather dim view of exercise too which seems intuitively wrong to me. But perhaps I should just read the book itself.

[peter s]

In one of those odd coincidences, my monthly Life Extension Magazine just came and it has a several page article on invingia. If anyone would like a copy, I can mail or make a pdf for you, send me an email at pspaeth12@comcast.net

[Biologist]

Peter,

What he reveals and discusses are the medical findings over the last century -- without the "political/money influences". He promotes no diets. He simply provides the human physiology involved in Western disease etiology. He has little remarkable to say, that I recall, regarding exercise.

Here is a good one paraphrased from him. It's major if one can grasp it. My experience has been that many or most people simply cannot get it -- it's simply too counterintuitive; just like the concept that lowering cholesterol has so little to do with preventing heart disease:

"Does a child grow taller because he/she eats so much?

No, the child eats so much because the child is growing taller.

(In this case, Human Growth Hormone, among others, is implicated.)

Does an adult get fatter because he/she eats so much?

No, the adult eats so much because he/she is getting fatter.

(Excess Insulin Hormone, among others, is implicated in this case.)"

If what you eat transforms to fat and is stored in fat cells, it leaves you what? It leaves you hungry. You eat more. Carbs are the signal for the release of insulin. Insulin causes the cells to absorb carbs as sugar which is transformed to fat in the fat cells for storage (just as the author of your article describes hormonally). Of course there are other factors including emotional ones for over eating, but that aside, what is left is the above. So he writes. I think he is exactly right. I am a case in point on the "theory."

The recent findings you cite are additional pieces of the hormonal puzzle, it appears to me. I would be interested in what Taubes thinks of these findings and if they were subsequent to his book.

Biologist

[Biologist]

I wanted to read the article more carefully but found that the URL had changed. Peter's above URL now goes elsewhere. I had downloaded the article to my hard drive so I pulled it up there, found a good search string and put it into Google to find the new address. Here it is:

*http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/ss2008_report_more-weight-loss.htm

Biologist

[Allen1]

Hi there Biologist,

that's a great link, although I have skimmed over the article, I was surprised and pleased to read the Precautions and comments about Optimal cholesterol and pleased to see the Summary and warning to not overeat (that's me knackered then ).

I'll read this properly tomorrow when I am a bit fresher

All the best,

Allen

[Dee]

I rarely look at the Life Extension website, but just last week was doing some research on another supplement and stumbled across Irvingia.

Biologist, I am very interested in what your doctor has to say about this.

[Biologist]

Hi, Dee.

Irvingia was not mentioned at my appointment. There were too many other things to talk about (some of which I plan to discuss here in my Hypothyroid thread in the next few days or later tonight). However, we were both unimpressed with the most recent issue of "Life Extension Magazine" a copy of which my doctor had in his office lobby. I read some of it while waiting for my appointment and read the rest online just now (url below). Here is what I wrote for this post before deciding to read the whole thing just now before writing this post:

"They seem to be buying into the 'saturated fat and cholesterol control thing' a bit too much in the new edition of the magazine. I did not read the full article but what I saw appeared disappointing. My doctor thought so too. They are headed down the wrong path."

So now that I have read the whole thing, I believe I see the problem. It's an old one we have seen before. Here it is. I will quote Bill Faloon and then give the url for the whole article:

"You have entrusted us to provide you with an accurate analysis of the available scientific literature to keep you alive in good health. We therefore reiterate our 29-year recommendation that healthy members keep their LDL levels below 100 mg/dL."
--Bill Faloon (owner/CEO of LEF)

My translation: "See! We've been right all along! (And still are, regardless of what the science may actually say.)"

Here' the full url:

**http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/feb2009_The-Cholesterol-Controversy_01.htm

He ignores the dangers of having (too) low cholesterol almost completely -- with or without a statin. And has little negative to say about statins and their very significant life limiting characteristics (e.g., as many people die from taking them as are improved by them, per the studies). Most importantly perhaps, he does not mention whether or not his natural substances are in fact natual statins. His writing on oxidized cholesterol appears correct to me. The article strikes me as a mixture of truth and likely BS (i.e, Bad Science).

His take on saturated fats needs a lot more work. He needs to read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes.

He needs to read "Alzheimers Solved" by Henry Lorin for learning all the dangers of low cholersterol.

(Neither of these books are necessarily recommended for the casual reader -- some sections of both are serious medical / science "scholarship.")

_________

Here's a quote from another article there in this issue of his magazine (url below)

"The occasion was the publication of the dramatic results of JUPITER, a study of 17,802 apparently healthy men and women with normal low-density lipoprotein (LDL) levels but high levels of the inflammatory marker protein called C-reactive protein, or CRP. This study demonstrated that people without abnormal lipid profiles, but with signs of increased inflammation had remarkably lower rates of cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, and their consequences, when they took a “statinâ€Â

[Dee]

Hi Biologist!

Thanks for your input and research. I guess I was looking at Irvingia with blinders on, my main reason being to lose weight and reduce CRP. Have been reading this:

*http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=2874&query=Irvingia&hiword=IRVING%20IRVINGIAS%20Irvingia

Also this site is probably old news, I found it while googling Lovaza, the expensive prescription fish oil. Love this Docs opinion!

*http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/

*http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/lovaza-rip-off.html

Thanks again Biologist!

Dee

[Biologist]

Thanks, Dee.

I will check out your urls.

Biologist