THE CURE FOR HEART DISEASE

[Darrell]

I don't see the link.

[JL]

ww.biblelife.org/cholesterolmyth.pdf

Unfortunately, this article was part of some bible person's website, but what it has to say about cholesterol and Famingham Heart Study is really what mattered to me. All a conspiracy to make more money for the pharma companies by keeping everyone sick and addicted to drugs.

[Darrell]

Thanks. One thing that really galls me is that side effects were only evaluated using a 12 week study. I was taking a statin for much longer than that before my side effects became apparent. Anyone who recommends that large numbers of people take a drug for life based on a 12 week study should be jailed.

[JL]

Well the one thing that really gets me is that they were totally dishonest about the study and held back on the details which misleads everyone into believing that it was a thorough study when it was not.

[stina]

No wonder that we are all so confused! One can read thousands of articles and they all contradict each other. One says that your cholesterol numbers don´t mean anything, cholesterol is not a problem and then starts to advice you how to reduce your numbers. There is even a link on this site that promotes Cholestasys with a gentleman being really chuffed because his cholesterol has dropped from 190 to 160! As I have understood, perhaps wrongly because who knows really, that if your cholesterol falls as low as that you are in a high risk zone for a stroke. Would it not be fanatstic if we could find someone, without any connection to drug company or people wanting to sell something, that could give us the exact facts. Until that happens I suppose we just have to make the most of what information is available, hope some of it is correct and help and support each other as much as we can. Another thought, I just wonder how many people really have a cholesterol reading of the "recommended" 200. Very few I should think.

[Fedup]

My husband stopped taking statins due to the side effects and started using the Pauling method. It has been over nine months since he began the Pauling method. His cholesterol has not been lowered at all and his TC is still well over 200 with his LDL over 150. He has not had another heart attack though, so we don't know if the Pauling method has helped to prevent a second one. His PCP did admit that statins are really used to reduce inflammation and lowered cholesterol is just a side effect of reducing the inflammation.
Diet and exercise have not helped reduce my husband's cholesterol as we are vegetarians and he rides his bicycle 10 miles per day plus works out in a gym for 2 hours twice a week. He also doesn't smoke and is not overweight.

fedup

[sos_group_owner]

Hi Fedup,

It's good that your husband's doctor recognizes the difference between elevated cholesterol and inflammation. Has the doctor checked your husband's:
* homocysteine
* Lp(a) - Lipoprotein (a)
* hs-CRP - high sensitivity C-Reactive Protein
* oxidized LDL

These risk factors check for inflammation, the type that causes heart attacks and strokes. And it's not elevated LDL that is the problem. It's oxidized LDL, that is caused by elevated homocysteine, triglycerides and smoking.

I don't think the Pauling method is supposed to lower cholesterol levels. It's designed to control inflammation.

Fran

[JL]

Hi all,
I recently had my cholesterol checked again and again it was over 200 at 223. My LDL was 145!!! I sat down with my doctor and told her that I am not taking any LIPITOR and to write that down in my file. She had no problem with my decision but she did say that the drug companies somehow get to see the lab results of patients who have "high cholesterol" and they contact the doctor and pressure the doctor to prescribe Lipitor or whatever statin drug is in fashion at the time. My doctor also mentioned that she had a patient who she put on Crestor and he experienced amnesia. She said it is scary being a doctor because the drugs nowadays have so much side effects.
The Pauling Therapy actually evolves around Vitamin C and the amino acids because both of them are able to heal lesions in the arterial walls thus preventing the sticky lippoprotein from sticking to the walls and causing other material to stick to the walls and cause plaque buildup.
By the way, Omega 3 fish oil is very good for inflammation. I would prefer taking it to a statin drug any day. See article below.
ww.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/sep2006_report_omega5_01.htmg

lots of stuff at this link regarding inflammation and how to deal with it naturally.
http:qualitycounts.com/fpinflammation.htm

:D

JL

[slacckk]

I was diagnosed with "high" cholesterol back in June. Ldl 187 HDL 46 Triglycerides 150. CRP was low.

Having already been aware of the issues with statins I refused to take them.

Since have read the Pauling/Rath research. Scurvy causes bleding gums/gum destruction and kills you via weaked arteries if it's goes on long enough. So, I decided to try several grams of vitamin C per day.

Don't know if it works on CHD, but I can tell you that the vitamin C has completely stopped bleeding from my sensitive gums when I floss. I can't make them bleed.

If my gums were having problems becuase of sub-standard collagen production due to a lack of vitamin C, then odds are my arteries probably had some issues as well.

Took another cholesterol test in Sept., including Lp(a) levels. Cholesterol was still "high" but the Lp(a) was very low.

In any case, vitamin C and Lp(a) aren't my total picture. I've been taking cod liver oil for 5-6 years and I also eat a good amount of anti-oxidant foods. However, I know that my C was low given the improvement in my gums.

So, my anecdotal story, taking a few grams a day can't hurt, probably would be good for many people.

At least C is a cheap supplement.

[Fedup]

My husbands' cholesterol remains high, LDL 173, HDL 43, Triglycerides fine at 75, his LPa is 15, CR-P was also fine. His homocystiene is slightly elevated at 11 and he was checked for thyroid problems and there are none. He is going to increase the amount of B-complex and folic acid he takes to try and bring down his homocystiene level. The doctors are still pushing him to go on some cholesterol lowering medication, Welchol was mentioned. He won't take any prescription drug for cholesterol. We have been reading that the cholesterol levels should actually be higher as you age as this is documented as a cause for fewer heart attacks. I ordered the book The Cholesterol Con by Anthony Copol and have already read the Cholesterol Myth. We don't know who or what to believe any longer. Truly Fed up!

[catamaran]

[quote="Fedup"]My husbands' cholesterol remains high, LDL 173, HDL 43, Triglycerides fine at 75, his LPa is 15, CR-P was also fine. His homocystiene is slightly elevated at 11 and he was checked for thyroid problems and there are none. He is going to increase the amount of B-complex and folic acid he takes to try and bring down his homocystiene level. The doctors are still pushing him to go on some cholesterol lowering medication, Welchol was mentioned. He won't take any prescription drug for cholesterol. We have been reading that the cholesterol levels should actually be higher as you age as this is documented as a cause for fewer heart attacks. I ordered the book The Cholesterol Con by Anthony Copol and have already read the Cholesterol Myth. We don't know who or what to believe any longer. Truly Fed up![/quote]


The cause of heart disease is primarily progressive atherosclerosis in the coronary arteries lying on the surface of the heart. The cause of the atherosclerosis is the breakdown of the artery wall at or near bifurcations or sharp bends, points of high mechanical stress. The body tries to repair the broken down artery wall by cell proliferation that thickens the artery wall and concurrently decreases the calibre of the artery (the blood passage becomes narrowed). As the walls thicken the lesions become infused with capillaries to supply blood to the ever-increasing cell population. The lesions are weak and highly unstable and subject to rupture which can result in thromboses. Eventually, if a lesion does not rupture, the calibre gets so small that a thrombosis occurs and the blood-flow is blocked.

The artery walls become weakened over time due to a chronic insufficiency of collagen-building material, ascorbate, vitamin C. If sufficient vitamin C is included in the diet, arteries are maintained and repaired with quality collagen and are strong enough to withstand the mechanical stresses normal to the system, no breakdowns occur and atherosclerosis is avoided.

The best treatise on the whole scenario is available in Dr. Thomas Levy's latest book, "Stop America's #1 Killer". Naysayers will have a very difficult time dismissing what Dr. Levy, a board-certified cardiologist, is saying in his book since he bolsters his conclusions with over 650 clinical references going back to 1926.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi "catamaran"

Re: His homocystiene is slightly elevated at 11.

Although most labs say that <11 (and even as high as 15 micromoles per liter of blood) is a healthy level for homocysteine (Hcy), there is no safe "normal range" for (toxic) Hcy. Optimal Hcy levels should be 6.2 or less. For each 3-unit increase above 6.3, there is a 35% increased risk for myocardial-infarction (heart-attack). (American Journal of Epidemiology, 1996, 143[9]:845-59)

Epidemiological data reveal that Hcy levels above 6.3 cause a steep, progressive risk of heart attack.
(American Heart Association's journal Circulation, Nov. 15, 1995, 2825-30)

In addition to folic acid, B6 and B12, some might also need TMG (trimethylglycine), P-5-P (pyridoxyl-5-phosphate), zinc, inositol and/or choline to control Hcy.

Excerpt from an excellent article that explains homocysteine:
"There are three biochemical pathways used by the body to reduce homocysteine. In one pathway TMG donates a methyl group which detoxifies homocysteine. In this reaction, TMG is reduced to DMG (dimethylglycine), that familiar-product sold as a supplement for its energizing effects. In the other routes, folic acid, B12 and B6 convert homocysteine into nontoxic substances. Some people can't utilize one or another of these pathways. That is why a combination of all these nutrients is most effective for lowering homocysteine. In some people vitamin B may not be efficiently converted to its active co-enzyme form, pyridoxyl-5-phosphate. In that case supplementing with pyridoxyl-5-phosphate would be necessary. "

Source: "CHOLESTEROL IS NOT THE BAD GUY!!!" By Dr. Deb Baker
[http://www.y2khealthanddetox.com/truthchol.html]

An additional note for those taking therapeutic doses of niacin...
"A controlled study found that 1,000 mg or more per day of niacin raised homocysteine levels."
(Garg R, Malinow M, Pettinger M, et al. Niacin treatment increases plasma homocyst(e)ine levels.
Am Heart J 1999;138:1082–7)

Also LDL is not the issue... it's when LDL becomes 'oxidized'.

Things that create "free radicals" and oxidized LDL... Smoking, high blood sugar levels (diabetes), stress... Risk factors that damage the "endothelium" include elevated levels of homocysteine, blood sugar, insulin, cortisol (stress hormones), triglycerides, smoking and deficiency in some vitamins, such as C and the B's.

When you get a chance, read the complete article titled, "Is Heart Disease All Due to Blood Clots?"
[http://www.thincs.org/Malcolm.htm#clots]

Fran

[Fedup]

Thanks Catamaran and Fran. I will pick up the book you mentioned and read the articles.

Fedup

[vipergg22]

He may be quoting people who have been dead while , it is becoming increasing clear that these so called wonder drugs are doing nothing for this problem , there are more people with heart problems than ever and these drugs have been on the market in one form or another for 20 years . They are just adding to the pharm companies pockets along with all the extra physicians visits needed from all the side effects these things cause along with the misery people have to put up with if they do have a bad side effect .

[Fedup]

It seems the only good thing statins do is reduce inflammation and there are plenty of other ways to reduce inflammation without having nasty and dangerous side effects. DH experienced the nasty side effects.
His doctor told us he isn't allowed to tell a patient to go off the statins even if they are experiencing bad side effects. How sad and sick that is.
Fedup

[Darrell]

Sad, sick, and stupid. I wonder who is it that tells the doctor he isn't allowed to practice his profession according to his oath?

[Fedup]

I believe he said the American Heart Association.

[Dee]

The American Heart Assoc. is not going to tell a doctor that they are not "allowed" to take a patient off ANY med.....nor is any other medical organization. Doctors routinely adjust meds, put you on, off, different dose, different brand...etc.

This doctor is either lying or is incompetent...and should be "fired" by his patients.

[Fedup]

Dee, he told us my DH could decide to stop taking them but, he wasn't allowed to tell DH to stop taking them. I questioned this and he said the AHA won't allow him to tell his patients to stop taking it. I still question this but I also know doctors don't have the freedoms they used to.
fedup

[Dee]

Fedup,

I understand what your saying, but the AHA or even the AMA (American Medical Assoc.) are not regulatory agencies. They have no power to "allow or not allow" anything.

I really thought about this, and I cannot think of any regulatory agency (State Medical Board, FDA, etc.) that would tell a doctor they were not allowed to tell a patient to discontinue a drug, "especially" if it were causing adverse effects.

Now at one time one of the Big Pharma statin pushers had a seminar and invited a lawyer to speak that told the doctors that they were in danger of being sued if they did not prescribe statins and a patient had a heart attack...even that is pretty lame.

The only thing that I can think of that would not "allow" this doctor to tell a patient to get off the statin is the doctors own wallet and whatever he is getting in perks and kickbacks from Big Pharma.

I would love to have you ask this doctor again, and really pin him down on what he told you...a cardiologist (quite familiar with the AHA, I'm sure) was the one that told me to quit taking a statin, with no "ifs, ands or buts".