ED and Libido ... is this permanent?

[ScaredinCalifornia]

Just joined the forum after doing some Internet research for the last couple of weeks. My hope is that after posting my situation, someone can shed some light on whether things will return to normal again!

1. I am 46 years old and have been on 10mg dosage of Lipitor for about two or three years now. When I was first diagnosed my LDL was about 250 and was told to go on Lipitor immediately because of family history with high BP and Heart disease. My LDL has been around 150 with Lipitor.

2. During this time I have slowly over the course of the last couple of years or so really started to have problems with maintaining an erection, sometimes even losing it during sex.

3. Within the last year or so, I am now starting to experience really low libido and my wife of 23 years is still as beautiful as the day we met.

4. Before even considering Lipitor might be a problem (never really heard about it till now), I have had a Colonoscopy, Blood work, treadmill testing and you name it....all excellent to normal results. My BP is good (around 120/70), I work out, bike ride and hike and I am right about on target for weight (172 lbs, 5'9"). I finally shared with my GP that I am having sexual problems so he wants me to see a Urologist and a Phsycologist (which I have not done yet).

So, I stopped taking Lipitor last Thursday and will continue to do so in hopes that my sexual function and desire will return to normal very soon. As to the other side effects, they are all probably there but to a smaller degree than most I've read on this site. However, as with most males I know, the only side effect I really care about is sex! Hoping others will respond to my post with good feedback and insight. In addition, if more information is needed from me for better responses, please advise.

[not_happy_john]

Your description is exactly me too except that I am 53.
I reduced my dose of Zocor from 20mg to 5mg on the 20th Sept 2006 for 7 days and now down to 2.5mg with the intention of stopping on 3rd Oct 2006.
Unfortunately I have nothing to report so far. It is dissapointing that nobody has replied to your initial post as I think it would help us both.
I will report my progress here. I look forward to hearing any advance in your health you might be experiencing.

[Darrell]

No personal experience, but these may be of interest:
http://www.spacedoc.net/sexual_side_effects_statins.htm
http://www.spacedoc.net/libido_statins.htm

[ScaredinCalifornia]

Well, I stopped cold turkey on the 14th (and I can tell from reading more since my first post it is not the recommended way to go) and will report the following:

1. I started a regime of morning/evening doses of CoQ10, B12, B6, Folic Acid, Fish Oil and Vitamin C.

2. First and most obvious change for me was just an overall increase in energy, without a lot of aches and pains. I usally work out with free weights 3 times a week and then either walk or mountain bike for cardio at least 3 times. I feel much better before/during/after all of these activities than ever before. In fact, the morning coffee does not really seem nearly as necessary as before.

3. Ok, now the interesting part with regards to ED and Libido. First I would say the Libido has significantly improved. I would have never imagined that a male could ever lose interest, but I think with the stress of performing and the anxiety of wondering what the heck is wrong....one can see the mountain starting to become unclimable. I can honestly say that the interest and desire are coming back more and more each day.

Specifically to ED, I have been successful since I stopped, although I would still say that there is room for improvement. My erections are hard enough for sex, but I know they can be better and I am still amazed at how the littlest distraction can really throw me off (I have 4 children still at home with the dog).

I will continue reporting on this post with my progress if folks are interested, as I have to believe they are, but this topic is not something most feel comfortable talking about.

I also have a couple of questions: 1) From this website, I found links to websites that reported significant health benefits from larger doses of Vitamin C. However, I have not seen most folks here adding this to their list of vitamins and supplements. Is there a reason why? 2) Now that I am off of Lipitor, is there any simpler ways to obtain blood tests? Currently I have to go to my doctor where they send me to the lab...I wait for the results, and then they call you for an appointment. All I am looking for is a way to monitor my blood (cholesterol) in a simpler "cheaper" way....any ideas?

[tex62]

My first post to this web site was somewhat long; however, see the last paragraph of this post regarding ED and some other side effects my husband experienced: http://www.spacedoc.net/board/viewtopic.php?p=335&highlight=#335

As a follow up to that post of 10 months ago, my husband is now 63. He has continued to take CoQ10 and L-Carnitine as well as a few other supplements. The ED is no longer a problem and he has completely recovered from this and a host of other side effects. He sometimes (not always) takes Cialis which he never took before his experience with statins.

It seems that some people fully recover from statin side effects (muscle pain, ED, etc.) while others make a partial recovery, and others seems to only stabilize or get worse. It would be wonderful if there was a way to predict what route a particular person’s recovery would take. I can tell you that some people fully recover from ED and other effects.

[not_happy_john]

Great, sounds like you are well on your way to recovery.
I was initially interested to know how quickly improvements could be expected, espectailly in the ED department.
I reduced my dose from 20mg to 5mg and I can now say that there was a modest improvement in both the joint pain and ED. After seven days I reduced the dose to 2.5mg and everything is a lot better still. I intend to stop in 2 days time.
So, as far as I am concerned the result is almost immediate.
I live in Melbourne, Australia so I can't help you with how to go about monitoining your cholesterol & triglyceride levels without the usual expence.
As far as all those supplements are concerned I suppose we are looking at the same web sites. I too am taking CoQ10, fish oil & E.
I am in not position to comment on their benefit.
I have also found [www.mercola.com] an excellent source of information that challenges the conventional thinking on how to reduce the causes of high cholesterol and triglycerides. I can say that my wife has suffered from recurrent candida/yeast infections and follwed mercola advice which definately worked. While not the reason for the diet changes her cholesterol levels went from being on high side to the lower middle of the recommended range.
I am very pleased for your improvent and and am very interested to follow your progress.

[ScaredinCalifornia]

Thank you for sharing your personal feedback and experience! :)

[06MI]

[quote="ScaredinCalifornia"]2) Now that I am off of Lipitor, is there any simpler ways to obtain blood tests? Currently I have to go to my doctor where they send me to the lab...I wait for the results, and then they call you for an appointment. All I am looking for is a way to monitor my blood (cholesterol) in a simpler "cheaper" way....any ideas?[/quote]

You are not alone. I too was looking for the same thing and finally found it at [http://www.testsymptomsathome.com/index2.asp]

It's called a CARDIOCHEK and works great. It's simple, quick, and easy to use.

FYI, here's what the American Heart Association has to say about Cholesterol, Home Testing Devices at [http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4501]

Lastly, other devices are available (like CholesTrak, see [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3958/is_200307/ai_n9261523)], but they are one-time-use kits.

[not_happy_john]

Its been over 4 months now since I stopped taking 20mg Zoccor.
I can happily report that I am back to what I consider normal.
The joint pain has gone, the jerks at night have dissappeared, my memory has improved, my overall mood has improved and my ED is also back to what it was before Zoccor.
I began improving, particularly on the ED and joint pain front within days of ending the Zoccor treatment. The other symptoms were more subtle and harder to report on as to how soon they improved, but in all after 4 months I feel good.
To summarise, improvement occured almost immediately and then slowly over the next few months (and this applies to ED as well).

I am taking the following supplents
- daily- fish oil, B6 50mg, folic acid 250mcg
- twice weekly - Natural vitamin E 500IU, selenium 12mcg, B12 500mcg

The changes made to my diet are to reduce carbohydrates particularly refined carbs and refined sugars. I eat more leafy greens, vegetables. I also have increased my protein intake in the form of meat but I expect I still consume less of this than most. I dont worry about naturally occuring fats including saturated fats but try to avoid trans fats, heat damaged, oxidised or otherwise altered (including hydogenated) fats. As for polyunsaturated fats and monounsaturated fats I try to avoid these in refined form since they are easily damaged through oxidation. Where cooking calls for oils we fry using extra virgin olive oil or unrefined coconut oil (the coconut oil because it is saturated and these are apparently less effected by heat) and try to avoid overheating.

So far so good, although I no longer worry about cholesterol levels they have come down to about normal levels but more importantly the triglyceride levels are now in the aceptable range as a result of the reduced sugar and carb intake.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi 'not_happy_john',

Now we can call you just Happy John!
That is great news (about your recovery) and some very good advice.
Have you tried virgin coconut oil and butter together? Very nice flavor and good for you too.
Great article by Dr Mary Enig, 'The Skinny on Fats':
[http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html]

Fran

[not_happy_john]

Yeah, much happier, Fran!
I feel like I'm back in the drivers’ seat.

It takes quite a sustained effort to get past the conventional wisdom(or lack thereof) to find useful and authoritative sources.

I recommend Dr. K McCully's book "The Heart Revolution" to anyone interested in understanding heart disease better.
(see http://www.spacedoc.net/mccully.htm)
And thankyou for your reference to the excellent article on Fats by Dr. M.Enig.

We haven't heard from 'ScaredinCalifornia' lately. His comments helped me a lot and were greatly appreciated. If you are reading this I'd like to hear from you and I wish you well.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi John,

My list of recommended reading:
[http://www.freewebs.com/stopped_our_statins/books.htm]

Fran

[2388Com]

I can relate to ScaredInCalifornia, my husband is the same age, married the same number of years, very sexually active, well, used to be, but 5 kids. He has been on 10mg Lipitor for close to 3 years but within the last few months has experienced ED which is devastating both physically and mentally. We have decided after reading the postings, to stop the Lipitor and try the vitamin regime, but wanted to know what dosage recommendations people have and how long it takes for the effects to wear off. I feel the Lipitor just isn't worth it, they just don't tell you about that side effect and we are too young to counter with Viagra. I'd like some feedback, going shopping tomorrow for vitamins.

[adec]

Welcome aboard 2388Com. Erectile dysfunction is just one of a long list of not only Lipitor side effects, but statin side effects in general, to which your doctor will never alert you. On so many levels cholesterol is fundamentally vital to healthy function in the human body: cellular, muscular, cardiovascular, brain, nervous system, hormonal, immunological, digestive, reproductive etc. Mega-doses of statins not only lower cholesterol to unhealthy and unnatural levels, but deplete many important nutrients, enzymes, and vitamins in the process, including most of all Coenzyme Q10.

If I could recommend one single product as having the most major benefit for those here suffering from statin related illnesses, it would be this one. I would purchase it ASAP.

*http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-CoQ10-Alpha-Lipoic-Acid-Acetyl-L-Carnitine-HCl

Recovery seems to take as short as six months, to as long as 1.5 years based on the indivdual anecdotal accounts posted here. Most of all, keep reading/visiting and please keep us posted on your husband's progress. Good luck.

[2388Com]

It has basically been a week since my husband went off the Lipitor, we will monitor closely to get the right combinations of CoQ10 and the other vitamins, but he is very happy to report, as am I, that things are back to normal, amazing how that puts one in a better mood. I can say I am a bit surprised that things are normal so quickly, but no complaints here, and Lipitor will be banned at this house forever. I'm sure there will modifications with the dosages but I plan on purchasing a home cholesterol kit to see where we stand. Any suggestions as to how often it should be checked? I will probably be asking advice if it is too high, but for now we are very pleased.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi "2388Com",

Excellent news!

Re: Any suggestions as to how often it (cholesterol) should be checked? I will probably be asking advice if it is too high, but for now we are very pleased.

Cholesterol 101

Cholesterol is NOT the problem.

The problem is not even elevated LDL cholesterol, it's when LDL becomes "oxidized". Basically, our body's reaction to inflammation.

Excerpt from an article by Dr Malcolm Kendrick: LDL (Oxidised LDL):

" This is a complex pathway. When platelets start to stick together, they release free radicals. "Free radicals" oxidise LDL. Oxidised LDL is a powerful blood clotting factor. LDL is also incorporated into the blood clot as it forms, and provides a `lipid' surface (along with VLDL) for the construction of fibrin. Fibrin is the hugely strong protein strand that binds a clot together and makes it `tough.' "

When you get a chance, read the complete article titled,
"Is Heart Disease All Due to Blood Clots?"
*http://www.thincs.org/Malcolm.htm#clots

Things that create "free radicals" and oxidized LDL...
* Smoking
* high blood sugar levels (diabetes)
* stress
Risk factors that damage the "endothelium" include elevated levels of :
* homocysteine
* blood sugar
* insulin
* cortisol (stress hormones)
* triglycerides
* smoking
* deficiency in some vitamins, such as C and the B's
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now that your husband has stopped statins, it's a good time to start:

Dr Graveline's "Statin Alternatives".
These items reduce and prevent inflammation and have the same anti-inflammatory affect as 20 mg's of Lipitor (atorvastatin), without side effects. (i.e. anti-oxidant, reduce platelet stickiness, controls homocysteine)
* buffered aspirin - 81 mg (contains beneficial magnesium)
* CoQ10 (Coenzyme Q10) - 100 to 150 mg (gelcaps - NOT powdered) with some Vitamin E
** Folic Acid - 400 to 800 mcg
** B6 - 80 to 100 mg
** B12 - 200 to 250 mcg
** (all 3 of these B Vitamins control Homocysteine or better yet, a B Complex that contains all the B's with at least the amounts above)
* Omega 3 (fish oil, cod liver oil or krill oil) [ There is no upper limit]

Source: Dr Graveline's article: Statins Alternatives
http://www.spacedoc.net/statin_alternatives.htm

Note: "Statin Alternatives" are not designed to "lower cholesterol", because cholesterol is not the problem.

Fran

[2388Com]

Thank you for your wealth of information. Wow, I was totally unaware of exactly what we are dealing with. I hesitate to talk to our doctor about any of this because she will say to stay on the medication, so I am very thankful for everyone sharing your knowledge. At the moment, my husband is taking CoQ10 with fish oil, 50mg morning and 50mg night, then it was suggested to take a mens formula multi-vitamin that has all of the recommended dosages when he takes one in the morning and one at night. The only thing in question is B-12 at a combined dose of 100mcg, should I buy separate B-12 to add or try this and see? I am anxious to read the articles you suggested and realize more how certain foods have an impact. My dear husband is a non-vegetable, non-fruit person, so no wonder he is out of whack :lol: Thanks again for the helpful information.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi '2388Com',

It's best to take a B complex to get all the B's, as they work together.
Sub-lingual formulas absorb quickly (hold the liquid under the tongue
for about 30 seconds). Look for brands that use the sweetener 'stevia'.
Go slow adding and increasing the dose of supplements.
Keep track of what you're adding and research supplements with any
prescription meds hubby is taking.

CoQ10 can lower BP especially in those with hypertension (which is a
GOOD thing), but BP might get too low if one is taking BP meds.

Fran

[Brian C.]

2388Com : My dear husband is a non-vegetable, non-fruit person, so no wonder he is out of whack Thanks again for the helpful information.

Liver is a great source of vitamins. One can exist on an all-meat diet as long as one eats liver frequently and it's not over-cooked.

Two Scandinavian doctors demonstrated this by staying healthy on an all-meat diet for a year.

Brian.