by Biologist » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:58 am
Deb, your update is interesting partly because it is what I had anticipated. I am currently taking testosterone replacement (Androgel) and have been for one month. I would suggest you read this book (its old but the reviewers still say it is still the best one -- while I have also preordered the one you will see due to come out this month from the second hyperlink below):
*http://www.amazon.com/Testosterone-Syndrome-Critical-Sexuality-Reversing-Menopause/dp/087131858X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-8409589-8095012?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191943414&sr=1-1
*http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/103-6611373-4283037?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=testosterone+syndrome
There is a section for women in his book. And it contains some important info (remember the female athlete runner who just "turned herself in" was dosing testosterone -- and for a reason, it builds body tissue, and that is what you and I need, right?) You, as a woman, just need about a 10th as much as I do as a man, if you happen to be low. And guess what? Yep, the precursors for testosterone (and estrogen) are cholesterol -- which we lowered for years. Also, we may have damaged our mitochondria, and guess where part of the conversion goes on to reach these hormone end products? Yep, the mitochondria. I earlier mentioned human growth hormone to you. It is too expensive for most people (certainly including me), however note the following:
Page 82:
The following cardiovascular risk factors increase as testosterone decreases:
* Cholesterol and tryglyceride levels go up, leading to increased arterial plaque.
(My note: He also slams statins in another sections: one of the first major publishing doctors to do so I believe as the book was written in about 2000)
* Coronary artery and major artery dilation diminish vasoconstriction and greater risk of cardiac events
* Rising blood pressure
* Increased insulin output, which leads to obesity, elevated blood pressure, adult diabetes, and increased cortisone output
* Increased central abdominal fat; increased waist/him ratio
* Increased estrogen levels in men -- associated with higher stroke and heart attack rates
* Increased lipoprotein A
* Increased fibrinogen -- the basis of most blood clots (combined with a simultaneous drop in plasminogen, our natural clot buster
* Decreased human growth hormone (HGH) output, leading to a decline in energy, strength, stamina, and heart muscle mass and output
* Decreased energy and strength, causing decreased physical activity thereby leading to obesity -- the vicious cycle of the male menopause.
His hormone replacement advice for women regarding estrogen is dated, but the pieces sure fall into place regarding breast cancer. With that fact in mind, his work is still very good, just some of his analogies to men and testosterone are not effective. Estrogen causes problems in men and women (but a lot of good to) -- testosterone in both has a much better record. Note that there are some Amazon books devoted to just women and testosterone that you might want to check out. And DHEA is something I believe you should research as much as you can in the mean time. If I were you, I would probably be doing a good bit of it. You have to decide for yourself.
BTW, for all others, particularly men on this forum: knowing your testosterone level without knowing your estrogen level is nearly meaningless -- and most doctors apparently don't know this fact -- mine didn't as best I can tell because -- Damn it -- I now want to know what it is/was and the estrogen level test was not ordered. I wanted and needed that baseline and would certainly have paid for it -- I paid for finding out if my low testosterone was based on primary or secondary causes by testing for my LH and FSH levels. Apparently he just did not know the importance of this test (and at the time I did not either). It is the RATIO that is so important -- at least as important as testosterone and DHT levels. You checked out fine and are well in line with other mens' averages your age based on your test results? WRONG! You have no idea and neither does your doctor because you do not know your RATIO. Read the book. And BTW, why would you want to be "in line" with other men your age? Hell, be in line with a 20 year old instead, right?!
Deb, I have little doubt we have the same statin damage regarding the ALS type symptoms. Yours is just worse than mine. First let me make a clarification: my left shoulder and my left arm tremor under motion are clearly related to each other and the shoulder obviously gets worse the next day on stretching it the day before. Before I "workout" on a stairclimber / elliptical machine I do a relatively thorough set of body stretches. I mentioned that it takes nothing to for it to bother me the next day, but as of today I am just making that connection. But here's the thing, the biceps and shoulder can also feel as you describe without any particular workout or stretches except for day to day chores. Why does my muscle ache? It could be that it is repair going on? I am hopeful that over time my situation in this regard will improve and the replacement therapy's anabolic boost should help. But it could take many months and so far there is no improvement I can detect. However, my fatigue and depression have simply gone away and I attribute that to the replacement; but, when I found my levels were low, I immediately started increased doses of DHEA (after doing a lot of online reading) and started to feel much better. On rechecking my testosterone levels three weeks later, my numbers had tripled (while it was a morning test where we would expect it to be higher -- but not that much!) See what I mean? At this point I continue to feel better but have not had my levels checked since starting a month ago. I am sure they are up there.
Warning: doctors tend to be wimps on testosterone -- and probably even more so for women. It is a schedule three drug for one. They may be looking after their own careers by denying it. And as Dr Shippen, MD (the author) quotes his father, also a retired doctor: "Doctors tend to be down on what they are not up on." There are several examples he cites of very irrational thinking regarding its use that are popular in the medical community. Don't expect Ford doctors to be much more enlightened I'm afraid.
I am looking forward to how the visit comes out.
Keep your head up.
___________
Brooks, same here with the DHEA. Here is a central concept that may be hard to understand. It was for me. I get it now. Your usage and my usage of DHEA has probably been ineffective and possibly counterproductive. We have taken too little. By our small amounts of supplementation all we have done is partially replace endogenous production with exogenous supplementation. See what I mean? (They are not cumulative in the body.) And you DO NOT want to do that, because when you quit supplementing, you may not even be able to make it as well anymore as the cells have atrophied! It may take them a while to produce again. This is why you need to take a break for some weeks (or months?) from time to time to keep your own glands able to do the production. That is why the therapy is called REPLACEMENT THERAPY -- NOT SUPPLEMENTATION THERAPY. You DO NOT SUPPLEMENT hormones -- your REPLACE THEM. Give it a lot of thought. And if you are going to replace them for a while, put the GAS ON. Don't play around with tiny amounts -- like I did (10 mgs per day! -- how damn stupid, now that I "get the picture") Go for it for a couple of months at, say, 100 mgs. -- but much less than that is just not smart. I hope I have gotten the message across. It is a tough one to get.
Hey, here's one for you. My doctor's practice (several private doctors) now has scratched out the preprinted forms and have adjusted upward the acceptable levels for LDL!! (I suspect I may be due some "credit" there, who knows?)
Keep us posted.
Biologist
I am absolutely convinced I don't want to go onto this. I read somewhere on one of the postings about Red Yeast Rice, so I did a search and found that it can't be purchased here in Australia. I went onto eBay and purchased some from the US. It hasnt arrived yet, but I am very interested to know if anyone out there has tried this product successfully? Please, please let there be another solution to these dreaded statins. I stopped my statin in October last year, refusing to take it anymore, my number went right up to 9.8, my doctor almost had a fit. I am now taking 10mg of Zocor, the pain is bearable, but its not enough to bring it down, the last test I had it was 6.8, and this was because just a week before my test, I took large doses of Lipitor to make sure that it wasn't sky high. I obviously achieved this, but now I am only taking 10mg of Zocor, some days I miss because the pain in my arms is very bad.
