possible new suppliment with noticable benifits

[David Staup]

As many of you know I've been following several mito groups and mining them for info that may be of help for us. well here is another possible crossover that may help many of us greatly:

excerpt from a mito group discussion on L- Arginine

"Started taking L-arginine at 8 grams a day (by accident) Pain went, energy increased, brain fog went, lowered blood pressure to
normal (stopped the high blood pressure meds) ect.

Felt like i had my old life back.

My blood plasma levels after 4 weeks on that dose (8 grams - powder) were 95. Which they said was perfect. ( above 80 is the magic number)
Because i am the first at our metabolic clinic to take it, they wanted me to take less, as they are not sure if there are any side affects, on that higher amount.
I have been taking 2 grams a day for the last 30 days, and will be getting the second blood levels taken this week. (results take about 10 to 14 days.)
On this 2 gram dose, everything is coming back, and B.P. is rising again. I
would need your " personal e-mail" to send the other two things to
you. ( some things are not permitted on the site) my new laptop e-mail is
jandodds@.... I will most likely double it, after the blood work, and
re-test 30 days later again at the 4 grams/day dose. (which 1 U.S. patient is on the 4 grams dose)

I have ordered some and will report back in a month or so

David

[Nancy W]

Very interesting, David.

What I find the most interesting is that it takes a certain dose to take away the symptoms. I am just theorizing here, but I wonder if these certain things replace something that should normally be manufactured by the body, but isn't any longer due to statin damage. This seems to be true of my current supplement regimen. If I miss a few days, or sometimes one day, bingo! Neuropathic pain. Like yesterday was crazy busy...we were heading up to camp, but first I worked half a day, then ran all sorts of errands in the afternoon. Plus, I had been awakened by our puppy throwing up grass at 3 AM, and didn't get back to sleep. I was so fatigued last night...weak, too. We were up camping, and I was walking our two Goldens, both of whom pull on the leash...I could barely control them! Then I was getting shooting pain in my face.

I didn't forget everything today...I am certainly taking less than I had to after the initial onset of the neuropathy, weakness and fatigue...but I can't get off of any of the things I am taking.

Interestingly we are camping at the same place where I had the sudden onset of symptoms last August. At that point, I was in the best shape of my life, could practically run up the mountain trails, leaving my husband in the dust, panting. I was exercising aerobically 5 days a week, and had a resting heart rate of 50. My resting heart rate is now back at "normal," 70. Hiking last night with my little grandsons, I was a completely different person. Weak, easy fatigue. I am going to hike one of the two trails we did last year, leaving plenty of time...I am very interested in the comparison. I know it will be hard.

If any of you docs are following the discussion here...it might be very interesting if someone like Dr. Golumb would do another study, focusing on mitochondrial damage. Perhaps she could look into the ATP test that is being tried for CFS in England. Then call for volunteers from this group, testing for mito damage, then investigate the various aspects of the mitochondrial "cocktail," as well as L-Arginine...

IMHO, we, being this group, are only the tip of the iceberg, and the iceberg is growing bigger and bigger. Yes, some more encouraging information is getting out there, but I don't see the medical community even discovering this info. When I talk with docs, they are a) shocked by my level of knowledge, and then b) shocked when I share Golumb and others' research. They still have no idea about adverse effects other than muscle issues and rhabdomyolysis. I have grown very bold, bolstered by the knowledge I have gained from this site and from "our" doctor's books and research. I readily argue with them, and assert my position and they discover they really have nothing to argue back with, other than what some drug rep tells them.

I think that the mitochondrial issues are where the research needs to focus. It may be that the people labled as chronic fatigue also have mito issues...perhaps theirs are related to other chemicals which affect the mevalonate pathway, or directly affect the mitochondria.

I will add, that when I went through physical therapy school over forty years ago, there was so little of this information available. Yes, we knew about mitochondria then, but so much more is known today. It is amazing!

David and others who watch, thanks for being so observant of the research that is out there...we owe you all a debt of gratitude for your vigilance!

I am eager to hear more about the trial of L-Arginine.

And to the docs on this site...thank you for your persistence in your fields. It takes a long time to wake up entities as stuck in the mud (and money) as allopathic medicine and big pharma!

Happy Fourth of July all! Nancy

[David Staup]

more info on L-arginine forwarded from the mito group:


Here is a little info on it.
What is l-arginine?
Arginine is one of the 20 amino acids that constitute protein. It exists as
L-arginine and D-arginine form. However, the L-arginine is the more compatible
form to our body. Because L-arginine can be synthesized in our body, it is
called non-essential amino acid. The exception is newborn infants are unable to
produce L-arginine and therefore their only source for it is food.
Health Benefits of L-arginine
L-arginine is a precursor of nitric oxide and other metabolites, a component of
collagen, enzymes and hormones (eg. vasopressin), ejaculate (seminal fluid and
sperm), skin and connective tissues. L-arginine plays important roles in the
synthesis of various protein molecules (eg. creatine and insulin). It may have
antioxidant property and reduces accumualtion of compounds such as ammonia and
plasma lactate, byproducts of physical exercise. It inhibits platelet
aggregation and can also decrease blood pressure.
L-arginine is converted to nitric oxide which aids in the relaxation of blood
vessels. The effect is better blood circulation in the body and especially in
the extremities (eg. genitalia). For this reason L-arginine helps in stimulating
and maintaining erection (at least in males). Men with erectile dysfunction may
benefit from intake of L-arginine rich foods or l-arginine supplement.
L-arginine is a major component of ejaculate (seminal fluid and sperm) and there
fore it is important for maintaining healthy ejaculate volume.
Other L-arginine benefits include maintainance of nitrogen balance, removal of
excess ammonia, liver detoxification, reduction of alcohol toxicity effects,
wound healing, and treatment of sterility in men.
L-arginine Side effects
L-arginine undermines the effect of lysine in suppression of viral infection.
Therefore, for a person infected with viruses (eg. person with herpes), it is
recommended to reduce L-arginine supplement dosage or not to eat foods high in
L-arginine. Pregnant and lactating women are advised to be cautious with their
arginine intake and dosage. Other side effects of L-arginine (when taken in high
dosage and for long term) are thickening and coarsening of skin.
According to some human studies, arginine-HCL consumed at high doses (> 9 g/d)
has been associated with nausea, gastrointestinal discomfort, and diarrhea.
Arginine Deficiency
Deficiency of arginine could result delay in sexual maturity, impairment of the
production of insulin, glucose tolerance, and liver lipid metabolism.
Food Sources of L-arginine
L-arginine is found in high content in protein rich foods such as peanuts,
walnuts, brazilnuts, cocunut, animal products (milk and milk products, pork,
beef, chicken, turkey), seafoods, cereals (oats and wheat), and chocolate.
Legumes such as soybean and chickpea are also rich natural sources of
L-arginine.

David here, I found the following that does a good job of explaining the whole known picture "as it is currently understood"

"http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/natural-medicine/alternative/l-arginine.htm

note the following:

L-arginine helps your body manufacture creatine, a protein that contributes to muscle mass and power. L-arginine also helps the body get rid of creatinine, the waste product associated with this process

and

When it's administered as a medicine, L-arginine is a vasodilator -- that is, it dilates the blood vessels, allowing more blood to pass through at once. That has the effect of lowering blood pressure and, in some cases, helping the body negotiate the arterial blockages that can come with conditions such as atherosclerosis

and

One interesting use of L-arginine is not so much to foster growth as to prevent wasting. In people with chronic wasting diseases such as HIV/AIDS, L-arginine seems to have the ability to help the body hang on to its muscle mass [source: Mayo Clinic


all three apply to some of us... it might be worth asking your doctor to test for defiency in any case

David

[Nancy W]

David, just wondering.

[Ozsurvivor]

What is being discussed here is indeed helpful. It is one of the supplements that Dr. Linus Pauling and Dr. Matthias Rath used in their CURE FOR HEART DISEASE, that was announced to the world in July 1992 (Pre-internet). Indeed, many of the supplements (vitamins and aminos) that are mentioned on the Forum are used in the cure. I am not surprised that the cure has been obscured from Public knowledge, as it sinks the Trillion dollar Statin industry with a safe and natural alternative.

[Nancy W]

Hi David,

I haven't been on much this summer. Has been a busy time for me. I completed most of my father's estate and distributed the money, which my siblings were clamoring for...now just a few possessions, mostly very old documents and portraits need to be donated to two libraries back east in Cape Cod. Much less stress for me. With less stress, I am sleeping better for the first time in four years. It is lovely.

I still have the neuropathy, you can read in my post today to pgamer.

I am wondering what you concluded about the L-Arginine. My naturopath was doing research on it and has me trying 1 g twice daily. Got started about three and a half weeks ago, but haven't noticed any difference yet. The bottle actually says 2 g twice daily. I may try increasing it...

She also has me trying a Thorne preparation called Poly-Resveratrol, which has resveratrol (active ingredient in red wine for heart health), curcumin, green tea, quercetin and pterostilbene...she read that this may help the mitochondria...Again, no big changes thus far.

She felt that these two, together, might increase mito production. Actually increase number of mitochondria...as I said to Phil, we will see.

She also upped my Neurochondria, the CoQ10 preparation by Thorne to 4 twice a day...it definitely controls the neuropathy, without it for even one missed dose, the neuropathy gets worse. She is trying to take the neuropathy away.

On my own, I am also trying a sublingual B-12 five days ago.

I am thinking that there has been a subtle up-tick in my energy. But, of course, I have broken my own cardinal rule about only changing one thing at a time.

As I said in another post I wrote today, the naturopath thinks she can sense that I still have statin toxicity, deep in my brain and that is what is causing the residual neuropathy. She hopes I can increase the blood flow to my brain to "flush it out." Ginger, ginko, wasabi.

Hence the title I wrote for this post...tinkering with supplements...

Meanwhile, I am taking a three day Reiki course this weekend...nice energy!

Hope you are doing okay with all that heat and the fires in TX!

Nancy

[David Staup]

Hi Nancy,
I did seem to get some benifit from the l-arginine mostly in lower BP but when I upped my dose I started getting headaches. I'm going to try upping it again but it's further down the list of tinkerings for me. right now I seem to be getting a boost from niacinamide at 250 mg 2x per day and am going to double it when my next order gets here in a couple of days. I've been taking it now for some time and didn't realise how much it helped till I ran out of one bottle and forgot to bring out the next one. I crashed and didn't come out of it till I started taking the niacinamide again. I'd add that to your list.

David

[Nancy W]

So, it works with mitochondria for energy?

[David Staup]

Niacin as Niacinamide offers significant help with energy production and release, diabetes type I mellitus, osteoarthritis, synthesis of fatty acids, cholesterol and steroids, skin health, signal transduction, and the maintenance of the integrity of the genome, and hundreds of enzymatic reactions throughout the body.
B3 Niacin as Niacinamide empowers the body to convert carbohydrates, fats, and proteins into energy and amino acids.

from here:
"http://www.healthbenefitsmadeez.com/niacinamide.html

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide

note the following at the above link:

nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacologic and toxic effects of niacin, which occur incidental to niacin's conversion. Thus nicotinamide does not reduce cholesterol or cause flushing


David

[Nancy W]

Thanks for that information, David...I shall give it a try.