Dose cycle effects

[my2stents]

New here -- am interested in the lipitor debate -- I'm 51 and had angioplasty 5 and 4 years ago: 1 stent each year for a total of 2.
I've been on Lipitor 5 years (currently 40 mg) also on:
Altace, Toprol, Plavix, Bupropion, Aspirin and Metformin.

I'm wondering what changing dose cycles (say from every day to every 3rd day) would do?

I've already got the impression from reading here that consensus is to get off of lipitor completely.

My side effects are mild to medium (upper arm/ shoulder pain, occasional mild dizziness, chronic fatigue, shortness of breath) but I'm researching to find out what the long term effects may be.

Please educate me.

Cheers.

[adec]

Hi my2stents and welcome to the forum. I hope you continue to read, post, and share your statin side-effect story with us.

To begin to answer your questions, it would be impossible to educate you away from the grasp of currently accepted science.... especially in your fragile medical state. The human body is an extremely complicated instrument, and cholesterol inhibition can affect so many vital biochemical processes. The extremely large scope of these causative symptoms greatly decreases any ability to detect the singular root cause, especially in those doctors unfamiliar with statin damage. There's no question you suffer from a mild case of statin damage, among your many other pre-existing conditions. This could become increasingly worse over time.

For a refresher course, cholesterol itself is what makes our cells waterproof. Without cholesterol these cells slowly leak and die. Cholesterol is not only important for proper neurological function, but hormonal production. This inhibition also comes at the expense of other important vitamins, nutrients, and enzymes, most importantly including CoQ10. You see, statins not only inhibit cholesterol, but they break the very mechanism of its production... perhaps permanently. This might just answer your question concerning long term effects.

CoQ10 is found in every cell membrane in our bodies, and plays a large role in energy production. The heart especially requires huge levels of CoQ10 to function properly. Therefore, low levels have been strongly associated with congestive heart failure. Of course, low total cholesterol levels below 160 mg/dL also have been strongly associated with cancer. These studies are very easy to find on the Internet.

By the way, the initial dosage for statins upon their 1987 introduction into the market was a mere fraction of today. Compare that to the current overprescription epidemic of statin poisoning, (yes, statin poisoning) in the order of your 40mg for instance.

I could immediately point you towards the 2003 Beth Israel Medical Center study in New York demonstrating that statins at even 80mg per day did nothing to reduce arterial plaque. In fact, there was an increase in plaque buildup in both those on Lipitor and the placebo, in the area of 10 percent. But then, those pharmaceuticals producing statins don't want this truth being known about their billion dollar cash cow.

I might recommend vitamin K2 (in particular Jarrow's MK-7) over Lipitor for clearing the arteries of plaque and calcium, for instance. And I might recommend fish oil over Plavix. That's just for starters. I would certainly recommend the slow discontinuation of statins over a period of a few weeks. Take less and less, until you take absolutely none. And then throw that Lipitor bottle away. Of course, you should also supplement with CoQ10 ASAP to greatly further your statin recovery. Again, get some CoQ10 ASAP.

However, these important changes are for you and hopefully a reasonable and well-informed doctor to discuss. And by all means, take a look at Dr. Graveline's home page for more information and studies to print out and show your doctor. He's the one more in desperate need for an education.

http://www.spacedoc.net

Good luck.

[Brian C.]

Welcome to our College of Knowledge my2stents. You have many hours of eye-opening browsing before you

adec, I've just tried a search on that Beth Israel research paper and drawn a blank. Do you have verse and chapter?
Thanks.

Brian.

[adec]

Hi Brian. And don't even ask what I'm still doing awake in NYC at 6:08AM EST. I'll assume it's around 11AM where you are.

I read the study quite some time ago in the American Journal of Cardiology. I might be a little sketchy on the details though. Perhaps it was an 80mg dose of Lipitor vs. a lesser amount (?), and not a placebo. I'll see if the study can be found on the Internet.

[adec]

Unfortunately you need an account to read the full text, but here's the abstract. Basically using electron beam tomography they found that aggressive LDL lowering did not correlate with a decrease in arterial plaque. All participants ≤80 versus >80 mg, concurrent in some instances with niacin, showed a rather substantial 9.2 percent increase.

============================================
The American Journal of Cardiology Volume 92, Issue 3, Pages 334-336 (1 August 2003)
Relation of aggressiveness of lipid-lowering treatment to changes in calcified plaque burden by electron beam tomography
Harvey S. Hecht, MDa, S.Mitchell Harman, MD, PhDb

The comparative effects of more versus less aggressive low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol lowering (to ≤80 vs >80 mg/dl) on calcified coronary plaque progression by electron beam tomography were evaluated in 182 consecutive asymptomatic patients after 1.2 years of treatment with statins alone or in combination with niacin. Despite the greater improvement in lipids in the ≤80 versus >80 mg/dl groups, there were no differences in calcified plaque progression (9.3%/year vs 9.1%/year). We conclude that, with respect to LDL cholesterol lowering, “lower is betterâ€

[Brian C.]

Thank you adec. I've forwarded the reference & summary to my docs.

Brian.

[my2stents]

Thanks Adec -- I appreciate your response -- thankfully, I am taking COQ10 (400mg) upon the advice of both my general MD and cardiologist.

I also try to work out on weight machines every chance I get -- my uninformed theory is that working these muscles can counter the atrophy apparently caused by Lipitor.

I also walk the treadmill for about 8 minutes at a 4 mile/min pace -- I need to double that.

I haven't thought much about memory loss until now -- I was blessed with a great memory, but now that I think about it, my short term memorization of phone numbers, for example, has been affected (I'll transpose a lot), and my business is spending a lot of time on the phone. If I am correct, this phenomenon is coincident with my Lipitor history (5 years).

I will keep reading -- very interesting stuff.

[Brian C.]

my2stents, be careful with the workouts. If the statin has given you muscular myopathy some of the muscle fibres will be of the fragile "ragged red" (from appearance under a microscope) variety and exercise can cause damage that wil take a very long time to heal.

Patience is of the essence. I have been statin-free for 5 months after 17 years (Zocor & Lipitor). My wife assesses me as worse now that when I was still taking the Lipitor - but I DO have good days and I believe these will become more frequent as time goes by.
I am taking 600g CoQ10 and 1.5g L-Acetyl-Carnitine spread in 3 doses throughout the day btw.

For an understanding of how statins harm see "A Layperson's View" at

*www.talkingstatins.com (copy without the asterisk)

Brian.

Brian.

[my2stents]

[quote="Brian C."]my2stents, be careful with the workouts. If the statin has given you muscular myopathy some of the muscle fibres will be of the fragile "ragged red" (from appearance under a microscope) variety and exercise can cause damage that wil take a very long time to heal.

Patience is of the essence. I have been statin-free for 5 months after 17 years (Zocor & Lipitor). My wife assesses me as worse now that when I was still taking the Lipitor - but I DO have good days and I believe these will become more frequent as time goes by.
I am taking 600g CoQ10 and 1.5g L-Acetyl-Carnitine spread in 3 doses throughout the day btw.

For an understanding of how statins harm see "A Layperson's View" at

*www.talkingstatins.com (copy without the asterisk)

Brian.

Brian.[/quote]

Thank you, Brian, for the advice -- I don't do heavy weights, rather repetitions on light weights on the arm machines (I'm too old to bulk up). One thing about working out -- if I'm achy, even chest pains (which I've learned are related to a hiatal hernia, or are just muscular -- not angina) working out makes the pains / aches go away.

Thanks for the reference -- I will check it out.

My dilemma with the Lipitor issue is my cardiologist is a missionary for Lipitor -- I will bring these issues to his attention at my next appointment (twice a year).

I don't undertstand if these issues are so serious why the medical field does not change it's stance on statins.

[Brian C.]

[quote="my2stents"]
My dilemma with the Lipitor issue is my cardiologist is a missionary for Lipitor -- I will bring these issues to his attention at my next appointment (twice a year).

I don't undertstand if these issues are so serious why the medical field does not change it's stance on statins.[/quote]

Money. Statins are the biggest earners in the history of medicine.
A larger proportion of the multi-billion dollar profits is spent on marketing than on research. Most of this marketing expenditure does not result in publicly visible advertising but on what my GP calls "grooming". I.e. long-term cultivation of decision makers and opinion formers in government, medicine and the media.
It takes a strong-willed cardiologist to buck against this.

Brian.