Vitamin D & Other Things

[epfleger]

I ran across this website run by Dr. Donald Miller while searching for vitamin D info. It has tons of great material that kept me reading for hours. I just might contact this guy and get his views on statin medicines. Enjoy.

**http://www.donaldmiller.com/

[David Staup]

Ed, very interesting site. thanks for sharing.

Dr. Miller exhibits quite a range of interests and clearly understands the proper role of skeptisism. I found the link on global warming especially good...covered almost all that I have found pertenant and very concise.

I came across one statement (that of course I cannot find again) about one suppliment that interfers with the uptake of others and now wonder if there is a schedule that we should be following for our suppliments for max benifit....if you contact the Dr. ask about that

Ed just as an aside: I found your bio and was very impressed you're quite the polymath yourself. I have a friend who consults on software for the AS400 and know something of the complexity of that system. also have a background in semiconductor manufacture (hardware and process, mostly ion implant) lots of common interests except at 6'4" I was more into basketball

David

[cjbrooksjc]

David: You might be thinking of Vitamin E. Vitamin E and CoQ10 compete for the same carrier (read transporter) in the body; which, if I'm not mistaken, is LDL, and should be taken at different times of the day.

Brooks

[sylviak]

• Vitamins C and E are more effective when taken together.
• Taking selenium increases the heart-healthy effects of vitamin E.
• Vitamin B-6, vitamin B-12 and folic acid are most beneficial when taken together.
• Calcium and magnesium work better when taken together.

• Vitamin E and Coenzyme Q10 taken together result in increased blood levels of both, although vitamin > 1000 IU reduces the
blood level of coQ10.

J Nutr. 2002 Nov;132(11):3400-4

Review of Anti-Oxidants
*http://internaf.org/ataxia/acarm/perlman-3.pdf


More.....

" A series of groundbreaking studies by Roland Stocker and his colleagues at The Heart Research Institute in Sydney, Australia demonstrates that vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol) systematically promotes LDL oxidation. Stocker calls this pro-oxidant action of vitamin E "tocopherol-mediated peroxidation," or TMP. Through TMP, vitamin E amplifies mild oxidative stresses so that they do much more damage to LDL. There has been a spate of papers and much lively debate in recent years on pro-oxidant side effects of vitamin E, but as we shall see below vitamin E works better in cooperation with CoQ10 than it does in isolation.
Why didn't decades of vitamin E research detect this problem sooner? One reason is that scientists apply heavy oxidative stress to LDL in the laboratory to achieve rapid results, while TMP (tocopherol-mediated peroxidation) happens under the more realistic conditions of chronic mild oxidative stress. Another reason is that, as Stocker's group discovered, the CoQ10 naturally present in the body protects against TMP. They showed that one molecule of CoQ10 can prevent two TMP chain reactions involving as many as 40-80 free radicals. In pilot studies they tested LDL from the blood of human subjects given vitamin E and/or CoQ10 supplements. CoQ10 supplements reduced TMP, while vitamin E supplements increased it. When given together, the CoQ10 supplement significantly counteracted the TMP side-effect of the vitamin E supplement.
The work of Stocker and his colleagues agrees with other lines of recent research suggesting that CoQ10 cooperates with vitamin E in a complex partnership that we are only beginning to understand. Indeed these "co-antioxidants" are always found together in cell membranes and LDL. CoQ10 regenerates vitamin E, which would otherwise be quickly exhausted fighting oxidative stress. Vitamin E breaks off the chain reaction of lipid peroxidation, while CoQ10 helps to prevent it from starting."
*http://cpmedical.net/articles.aspx?ProdID=art1667&zTYPE=2

[David Staup]

Sylviak,

the complexity of these interactions is truly mind boogling!!!

do you know of any reason to seperate any of the vitamins and supliments and take them at seperate times.. on an empty stomache...or with food etc. you seem to be quite knowlegable about these interactions

David

[sylviak]

There are conflicting advices about when the best time of day is to take them: some say morning with breakfast, others say before bed. Vitamins should be treated like any other form of supplement or medication, and be taken by the instructions on the pot.
With vitamins and most nutritional supplements, the time of day isn’t so important, said Dr. Sheldon S. Hendler, co-editor of The Physicians’ Desk Reference for Nutritional Supplements. (*http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/health/nutrition/05qna.html?_r=1&ref=health)
Available information indicates that administration of the total dose in several divided portions has no effect on the excretion of riboflavin, ascorbic acid or niacinamide. This would indicate that absorption of these vitamins takes place by passive transport. Divided doses of thiamine and vitamin B12 are absorbed to a significantly greater extent than single doses of these vitamins.
( *http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/12/3/162)
While there is not any recommended time of day, the best rule of thumb is dependent upon whether there are any side effects associated with the vitamins being taken. Scientific studies have shown that if vitamins are missed on odd days here and there, they will not actually work to their full potential. It is important to take them properly because if not then they can actually just be flushed straight through the body, and not be absorbed.
Aside from the timing issue, most vitamins and minerals should be taken with food. Although there are a few exceptions to this.
Water- soluble vitamins are supplements that do not store in the body and are therefore taken more often than fat-soluble vitamins. They include vitamins such as B1, B2, B6, B12, C and Folic Acid. Vitamin C and Vitamin B are water soluble vitamins and need to be taken daily as they will not be stored in the body for more then a day.
Fat soluble vitamins do not need to necessarily be taken every day and store themselves in the body, specifically in the liver. Fat soluble vitamins include A, D, E, K, and Beta Carotene. Because of this, a person needs to not take them in mega-doses.
Although the water-soluble vitamins B and C can be absorbed when taken with food or on an empty stomach, the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K are most efficiently absorbed when taken with some foods containing fat(Vit A, D, E, fish oil, CoQ10).. Beta carotene, a member of the carotenoid family and a precursor of vitamin A, is also best absorbed with some fat. This is also the case with other carotenoids used as nutritional supplements, including lycopene, lutein, zeaxanthin, astaxanthin and fucoxanthin.
Minerals should also generally be taken with food. “Absorption efficiency of calcium carbonate on an empty stomach is poor and increases significantly when taken with food,â€Â

[sylviak]

Vitamins do react with each other. The interactions involve the absorption,metabolism, catabolism and excretion.
The following link gives a clear picture on this issue:
*http://books.google.com/books?id=kj78ja7XHvYC&pg=PA287&lpg=PA287&dq=vitamin+interactions+with+other+vitamins&source=bl&ots=5EPU0J4dfI&sig=N5rynTGd-8PGNAy1N181Q1v6p3U&hl=en&ei=fXFiSqSqK96rjAe5uuX9Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

Other articles:
*http://www.lifestylelaboratory.com/articles/proof-positive/nutrition.html
*http://www.med.howard.edu/pharmacology/handouts/Antianemics%20&%20Vitamins.pdf
*http://rightwayvitamins.net/page43.php

[Ray Holder]

There have been press articles in the last few months about the superiority of the tocotrienol variety of Vitamin E over the more common tocopherols, but I have not yet been able to find this in other than trials in progress form. Can anyone throw more light on the subject?

Ray

[sylviak]

"Statin" drugs work by preventing the enzyme from latching onto HMG-CoA, so that it can't be turned into cholesterol. By contrast, tocotrienols simultaneously reduce the body's production, and speed up the body's disposal, of the HMGCoA reductase enzyme itself, so that there's less of the enzyme available to work on HMG-CoA in the first place
Additionally, tocotrienols may help cells to produce more "docking bays" for cholesterol, allowing them to clear it out of the blood so that it doesn't build up in the circulation and get "stuck" in blood vessels. Tocotrienols may also reduce the formation of the protein (apolipoprotein B) that carries cholesterol in the blood.
By contrast, alpha-tocopherol is unable to favorablymodulate the HMG-CoA enzyme. And in fact, studies in animals and humans have found that when tocotrienol supplements contain more than one-third alpha tocopherol,the cholesterol-balancing benefits of the tocotrienols are
lost!

Biochemists at the University of Berkeley's Packer Lab have tested the ability of different members of the E complex to shield brain cells exposed to glutamate in a test tube.They've found that alpha-tocotrienol, but not alphatocopherol, blocks brain cell death caused by glutamate.
Interestingly, the effect was caused by an unique mechanisminvolving cell signaling, and not by the molecules' antioxidant properties.

Recent VEPAS trial which found that supplements containing alpha-tocopherol alone may actually increase the thickening of your arteries!Tocotrienols may have ways of keeping your arteries plaque-free that extend beyond their ability to lower cholesterol levels.

First, obviously, to get the full benefits of the E-complex, you'll want to ensure that your supplement contains the full spectrum of eight E-complex vitamins: four tocopherols and four tocotrienols, with no missing molecules. Second, because of its depleting effect on other E-complex molecules, it's important that the total amount of E-complex molecules
other than alpha-tocopherol should significantly exceed the
amount of alpha-tocopherol itself.

extracted from
*http://www.aor.ca/assets/Research/pdf/Total_E_Special.pdf

[cjbrooksjc]

Here are a couple of sites with balanced tocopherols and tocotrienols:


**http://www.stopagingnow.com/YET/Vitamin-E-Factor-Tocotrienols-by-Yasoo-Health?gclid=CN_Qjrul4psCFQZlswodnFa0AA


Total tocotrienols, natural 68 mg *
Total tocopherols, natural 49 mg *
d-alpha-tocopherol 50 IU 166

**http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Tocotrienol-60-Softgels/1438?at=0

Vitamin E (as natural D-alpha tocopherol) 100 IU 330 %
Total Tocotrienols 50 mg †
Yielding: Gamma-Tocotrienol 24 mg

Also, in Doc's new book you will find a "tocotrienols advantages" read on pages 154-155

The auto-editor will not allow me to space the elements of this note properly - you will have to figure out the columns for yourself.

Brooks

[Brian C.]

Seek out and use virgin palm oil, it provides the full spectrum of tocotrienols and tocopherols. Fry your eggs in it.

Brian.

[epfleger]

Hey David,

Nice to meet a fellow nerdy tech-head. Yea, IBM was a cool job. Just recently, I pulled out my old calculus books and couldn't make heads or tails out of it. I used to LOVE math. Was quit good at it, too. A math minor with an EE major. Now I'm lucky if I can add a few numbers in my head. Thank God my wife pays the bills

F***ING statins!!!!

But I'm just one. If you've noticed, there are some pretty smart folks on this board, like yourself. Imagine all the brain power pfizer has destroyed. Ugh!!

Anyway, nice to meet you David.

[David Staup]

Hey Ed,

just had to laugh...it was either that or cry

"Just recently, I pulled out my old calculus books and couldn't make heads or tails out of it. I used to LOVE math. Was quit good at it, too."

Not long after I started on statins I tried going back over calc and anylitic geometry and also couldn't ...and I have noticed the number of highly intelligent people who suffer from this and believe there is a connection...just don't know how to test that theory.

very nice meeting you and good luck raising your kids. I imagine that the effects of this will be seen for generations even after ststins are gone.

David

[Brian C.]

Hah! Same happened to me a year or two back. Thought I would try to get to grips with some higher maths (we put an 's' on the end here in the UK) to enable me to get to grips with some theoretical physics concepts. What a joke!

Can't perform mental arithmetic now either so given up such pursuits.

Brian.