ATP suplimentation - it works

[David Staup]

For the past 2 months or so I have been experimenting with direct ATP supplimentation and have ample evidence that it has helped tremendously. first the background...

I started thinking about this because of the following reason. First I had learned that I could limit my side effects by limiting my activities to 3-5 sessions of 10 to 15 minutes per day with rest in between. I posted about this here as follows:

I'm aware of this...I must limit myself to 10-15 minutes of activity 3 or 4 times per day and must recline fully supported the rest of the time to recover. I'm 6'4" and weigh 155 lbs or so and have been down to 125 from loosing muscle several times in the 10 years of my statinized life. my neck and upper back muscles always hurt due to spending too much time at the computer. my hands and forearms always hurt for the same reason. Driving more than 20-30 miles tears up my right calf and my left thigh...when I over do it my urine turns dark and cloudy from muscle debris and blood, my kidneys start to malfunction and hurt if I don't supply extra electrolytes. usually have to endure pain from all the getting up and sitting down at church. when I say over doing it ...it is not much doing at all

Then I came across the following explanation for the 10-15 minute limit in the following from another forum:



If you exert yourself beyond the ~20 minutes of ATP stored in the cell, the mitochondrial damage will prevent the oxygen exchange that would normally replenish the muscle cell with energy. The next step is cellular damage, and even cellular death - apoptosis. The body's reaction to apoptosis is to produce a great deal of uric acid, which halts the cell death, but then the crystals form and gout develops. Gout, or inflammation in the joints, is a form of arthritis, which is what rheumatologists address


Be very cautious. When the exertion continues, after developing gout, people with statin can damage develop kidney and liver damage and often need gall bladder surgery. Continuing beyond that can result in rhabdomyolysis, which can be life threatening. From our experience, this danger exists even in the 3rd year after discontinuing the statins.You may need to visit several doctors and bring information on statin adverse effects along with you. Too many are unfamiliar with the syndrome, and they tend to deny all possibility, thus making themselves incapable of treating the true cause of the problem. "


I then started looking for ATP suppliments and information. first some info sites:

"http://www.smart-drugs.net/ias-atp.htm

"http://www.humpath.com/ATP-depletion

notice in the second site above that the final result of atp depletion is cell necrosis (death).

I started with a 225 mg sublingual tablet twice per day and even before testing with increased activity I upped it to twice that and experienced increased neuropothy symptoms so I dropped back to twice per day and started with what had become the normal 3-5 sessions of 10-15 minutes per day.. within a day or two my urine cleared (no dark color, no cloudyness, and no foam) I began to sleep better, and did not require any liquids at night. My total liquid intake dropped to a normal 60-70 oz per day and my joint pain dropped considerably...
Unfortunately when I went to reorder the suppliment I found it was no longer available! bummer!!! I still had a weeks supply left and found an enteric coated alternative of 150 mg and ordered it.
While I waited on the order I stopped taking any ATP for one week and continued with my normal activity level. within a few days my urine darkened, got cloudy and foamy, and all other symptoms of cellular problems returned.
When the new form (non sublingual ) of ATP arrived I had planned on trying it alone at normal activity levels and comparing the two results. Unfortunately that did not last long enough to make any observations. My wife (we are seperated and in the divorce process) wound up in intensive care at a hospital 1.5 hours away and I traveled back and forth each day to spend 30 minutes at her side every 2 hours. this meant a considerable increase in activity what with all the driving, walking, and standing so I started taking both the pills and the sublingual each day and increased my liquid intake (gatorade). I took 2 pills per day one at 10:am and another at 2:00 pm plus took 1/4 sublingual dose 4 times per day following activities... I did quite a bit of walking (I pace when worried) and driving, and standing (at her bedside) and never got much rest during the day. This went on for two weeks and although I slowly worsened I did not get nearly as bad as expected. I did start sleeping poorly, did get some joint pains and muscle weakness and lack of stamina and did experience some cloudy and foamy urine towards the end I have recovered significantly in just 2.5 days. I know two things:
1. I would not have been able to sustain the effort without the ATP and
2. recovery would have been much slower without the ATP...

I have since found another relatively high dose (150 mg) sublingual tablet which I ordered today and plan to use after each session of activity (1/4 to 1/2 tablet) and plan to use the non sublingual pill each night before bed.
when I'm fully recovered and on the above regime I will start to increase the number of sessions to see what my new limits are. also I have noted the following:

1. there is little if any effect on cognative function and memory ( I suspect the ATP does not cross the blood/brain barrior)

2. my blood pressure rose about 10 points, counter to what should have happened

3. when taken to counter the effects of activity the neuropothy symptoms seem normal (as they were before)

All in all I suspect that this supplimentation regeme is more benificial than the CO-q10, d-ribose, creatine, etc. combination that is used for ATP production support. I would suggest that everyone who has muscular related statin damage give it a try....

These are the suppliments I will be using:

the sublingual (disolve under tongue):
"http://www.nutrasanus.com/peak-energy.html

the enteric coated (swallowed form):
"http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-PEAK-ATP-150-mg-60-Tablets/13273?at=0

David

[eers]

David,

I'm glad you're finding some relief through all these trying times you are going through. I hope you and your wife continue to get better.

Take care,
eers

[David Staup]

another piece of the puzzle

excerpt:

What happens if some part of these cellular metabolic pathways goes wrong? If the mitochondrial source of energy is dysfunctional many disease symptoms may appear including the symptoms of CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome)
Suppose that the demand for ATP is higher than the rate at which it can be recycled. This happens to athletes during the 100 meters sprint. The muscle cells go into anaerobic metabolism where each glucose molecule is converted into 2 molecules of lactic acid. This process is very inefficient (5.2% energy production compared to the 100% of complete oxidation) and can last for only a few minutes. The increased acidity leads to muscle pain. Also, when the concentration of ADP in the cytosol increases and the ADP cannot be recycled quickly enough to ATP, another chemical reaction takes place. This becomes important if there is any mitochondrial dysfunction. Two molecules of ADP interact to produce one of ATP and one of AMP (adenosine monophosphate). The AMP cannot be recycled and thus half of the potential ATP is lost. This takes some days to replenish and may account for the post-exertional malaise symptom experienced by patients

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2680051/

[Brian C.]

Thanks to your original posting David now whenever I feel depleted after modest effort I place a Vitabase Peak Enegy lozenge beneath my tongue to dissolve. My wife has commented how quickly I then get my colour back.

It does indeed help recovery though not in a dramatic fashion.

Brian.

[Brian C.]

I must add that I found the enteric coated form to be not at all effective.

Brian.

[David Staup]

Brian wrote:

[quote]Thanks to your original posting David now whenever I feel depleted after modest effort I place a Vitabase Peak Enegy lozenge beneath my tongue to dissolve. My wife has commented how quickly I then get my colour back.

It does indeed help recovery though not in a dramatic fashion


Brian,

this is exactly what I'm seeing, I see a bit more improvement by taking 1/4 tab every 4 hours during the day in addition to the after effort tabs and also see a bit more taking an enteric coated pill just before bed

David[/quote]

[David Staup]

Brian,

I believe that my cognative condition is loosely coupled to my physical condition but not entirely so. I have noted some improvement cognatively when at my peak physically and also have seen a major decline cognatively when circumstances require long term physical effort and decline. I believe ATP depletion in the brain is also a big part of the cognative issues as well but that ATP does not cross the blood/ brain barrier as I've noted no improvement cognatively with the supplimentation
other than what occurs with improved physical.

have you noted any effect cognatively with the ATP usage?

I am researching the web to see if there are suppliments that may help limit atp depletion in the brain specifically but have just begun...more on this later

David

[Brian C.]

It just helps get me back to my usual half-doolally state from a fully-doolally state.

Brian.

[David Staup]

I now think I understand why ATP supplementation works....sometimes

when we have overdone it while near the bottom ATP depletion sets in...

red blood cells have NO mitochondria and therefor rely on serum ATP levels for energy

when serum levels are depleted red blood cells have problems

sublingual supplementation raises the serum level and the red blood cells are powered again..

I think this explains what we saw and why, since learning to pace myself, ATP supplementation became useless

David

[tyyosh]

David,
It sounds like ATP could be a good reserve supplement for those many times that extra effort is required while trying to live an outwardly normal life - moving kids to college, traveling for work, etc.

By taking ATP around those times, maybe it is possible to avoid those crash days afterwards.

[David Staup]

Well, I can see a possibility that it may work in the circumstance you describe... but what I was seeing occurred when I was already in crash mode.
I'd say it's worth a try. Probably take a lot...say one every couple of hours.

let us know how you fare. Good Luck!

David