Dr. Graveline's Best Weight Loss Diet - not best for health!

[David Staup]

aeroguy,
you wrote:
Are there any one or two books you know of that explain the myth of cholesterol? I read Dr. Sherry Rogers book and found it repetitive, impractical, and little more than a tool to get you to subscribe to her newsletter. Plus, she spent half the book saying how stupid worrying about cholesterol readings are, and the other half telling you to improve these supposedly meaningless numbers.

sorry for the delay, here is some reading, first a blog. read the replys

"http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/

and then a site for a book on the subject that is highly regarded:

"http://www.thegreatcholesterolcon.com/

tomorrow I will post about a question that troubled me when I first saw this fraud for the evil that it is. "how could this possibly be" I think it will help you understand.

David

[aeroguy]

You guys are providing info I had no idea existed. All of it is interesting, and much of it credible.

I'm gonna share a true story with you that has nothing to do with the subjects we've been discussing, and then use it to draw a parallel.

I smoked two plus packs of Marlboro for 25 years. I finally quit in 1985.

But I didn't stop craving cigarettes for three years. The reason is because (first and foremost, I was addicted) I was unable to stop associating the act of smoking with pleasure. I'd be walking down the street on a 65-degree spring day and catch a whiff of someone's cigarette and it would drive me crazy.

Finally, after three years, the idea of smoking disgusted me, and I've had no cravings since then.

This business with cholesterol is going to take some time. If what you and others at this site is true (and I'm starting to suspect it is, in part for sure, maybe in whole), like every other Western soul, I have been so brainwashed that it's gonna take a while to change my thinking.

But for right now, the fact that I am not taking statins anymore is a good start. Not that I deserve any credit for it--my side effects were so bad that, had it not been for that, I'd probably still be taking them, and would have never found this site.

[David Staup]

aeroguy

just out of curiosity what is the basis for your handle???

[xrn]

per maule5662:
"Dr. Graveline gives us excellent guidance on why to avoid statins. Dr. Graveline's "Best Weight Loss Diet" - certainly is not best for health"

... your drivel snipped

So there you are - at 74 years of age and still full of assumptions. Age is supposed to confer wisdom. Having looked after the healthcare needs of many vegans and their progeny, all of whom were suffering from self-induced malnutrition syndromes, I have concluded that vegan diets are wholly inappropriate for healthy human beings. Humans are omnivorous for sound evolutionary reasons.

*http://www.hugesettlements.com/Personal-Injury/3098.html

Regardless, running your mouth about people and subject matter, of which you are so clearly ignorant, is a testament to your immaturity. Internet sites can be informative if you are selective about what you read and from where you take your advice but you wont learn the art and practice of medicine from any of them.

You have appeared out of the blue, spewing off-topic nonsense in order to push your own deeply flawed personal viewpoint. Denigrating the site owner's medically founded advice wont endear you to the membership. Dr Graveline happens to be providing beneficial services, free of charge, to all of the site membership. He wont need me to defend him or his credentials but I do so because he works tirelessly on behalf of other people, without charge.

I am offended by people like you, who think they are founts of all human knowledge while their stupidity is clear from the moment they speak. You have the right to follow whichever deities push your particular buttons and whichever fad or diet happens to suit the number of brain cells which you own.

You do not have the right (from your position of huge ignorance) to come to this highly valued and much needed website and proceed to cast aspersions on the highly qualified site owner. Kindly go away and peddle your own brand of nonsense on your own ridiculous website.

xrn

[David Staup]

wow Jeff excellant post! I wish I had seen that link first..what a perfect example.

I don't think we'll be hearing any more from her...we all slapped her pretty good and she deserved it!

David

[aeroguy]

David--

The handle is inconsequential.

I have a cousin who works for Boeing, and he uses a handle of aeroboy. Just for the heck of it, I told him I'd become aeroguy.

Just a dumb name chosen more or less at random. However, I use it at various sites I visit and post at, so you are not the first to inquire.

[maule5662h]

"xrn" is certainly a friendly person.
His/her link http://www.hugesettlements.com/Personal-Injury/3098.html
is about a sensationalism case that has nothing to do with the health-promoting nutrition that we are pointing you to.

When an "optimal-for-health plant-based diet" is consumed -- as agreed-to, based on the evidence, by the many healthy lifestyle experts, the best health is achieved. No animal products are needed, their cons outweigh the pros.

At least read these few documents downloadable from my website:
Transform Health in 12 Days --
http://homepage.mac.com/maule5662h/FileSharing10.html

Veg Starter Kit --
http://homepage.mac.com/maule5662h/FileSharing22.html

Government Nutrition (Disaster) Guidelines
http://homepage.mac.com/maule5662h/FileSharing41.html

This is a relevant subject that is even more important than continuing to dwell on statins harms. Fortunately, I strongly resisted my family doctor wanting to put me on statins - he prescribes them for anyone over fifty, regardless of cholesterol level - for the anti-inflamatory effects. The four Pfizer pamphlets and other materials that he used to justify his position did not convince me of any worthwhile benefits, especially when you read "Overdosed America," by Dr. John Abramson.

One other document to download, if you care to understand me more, I am not the enemy!
Healthy Lifestyle Summary, Nov. 2007
http://homepage.mac.com/maule5662h/FileSharing40.html

[Allen1]

Hi there once again maule5662h,

what you are trying to put forward is VERY OLD news, the Vegan non Vegan argument is something that definitely has been seen for the stupidity that it is by most people who have encountered the fad. We are all aware that fruit and vegetables are nutritious and an important part of a good diet, you may be ok on this particular lifestyle but as I have previously stated, that lifestyle can be extremely dangerous for others, even more so for people who have been damaged by statins and other drugs that deplete a body of much needed nutrients etc.

You say you are not the enemy yet you still persist in trying to get forward the wonders of eating a diet that will harm a great many people. Both David and xrn are the most level headed people I know but you certainly caused a reaction that I have never seem from either of them before.

If you took the time to see the replies and assistance both David and xrn have done for people on this site, you would also know that they are very informative about the items they mention, if they are unsure they will research that subject before making a comment.

On the whole though xrn actually worked in the medical field and has probably seen the effects of poor dietary advice first hand, add that with what we as ordinary folk see happen to our colleagues who go for these silly fads, then you get a realistic view at the situation.

The main problem with the food we consume is what man has added to it plus excessive indulgence, take away all the additives and pesticides and overeating, then half the health problems would basically fade away.

Enough time has been wasted on an argument that is a personal lifestyle choice, if anyone wishes to go down that road then Google is a good place to start. People who are looking for answers to the problems that taking cholesterol reducing drugs have caused did not type "Vegan" in their search engine.

[xrn]

maule5662h said: "xrn" is certainly a friendly person.
This is not about being friendly... it is about telling you some truths. I don't have a membership to this site just to please you.

snipped more off-topic drivel...

"This is a relevant subject that is even more important than continuing to dwell on statins harms."

No! You are flat out wrong.

THIS SITE IS ONLY HERE TO DWELL ON STATIN HARMS AND THE MEANS TO RECOVER FROM THEM... it is not here to dissect your own ridiculous claims about your personal favourite food fads. As far as the membership is concerned, nothing (NOTHING!) is more important to them than recovering from their own statin-mediated damage and the considerable disruption to their lives and the lives of their loved ones, that statins have presaged.

What you don't appear to understand is this...

Spacedoc forums provide this facility to statin-damaged people... not vegans who have an axe to grind and who will be decidedly unhappy unless all the world sees the great value of veganism. If you really must bloviate about veganism, go and find a website and a forum for like-minded people. This is not it. (friendly hint: it will have vegan somewhere in the title)

There is no open invitation for you to come here and sell snake-oil, for very good reasons. Statin-damaged people are in a very fragile state. The very last thing they need is to be told that they are supposed to be doing what you happen to think is good for them, especially when all of the evidence points to the fact that you don't appear to think at all.

What you are saying on this site is both extremely unhelpful and just plain wrong. If you are unwilling to learn anything, your place is not on this forum. As previously requested, kindly go back to your own comfort zone and wallow in the mire that you accept as the truth.

I don't expect you to change your viewpoint. I do expect you to respect the fact that not only do other people have a viewpoint that may be contrary to yours but they also don't have to listen to what you happen to believe because it is completely irrelevant within the context provided by Spacedoc forums.

xrn

[spaceadmin]

I think this thread was started as a response to the article by Dr Graveline called "The Best Weight Loss Diet".
http://www.spacedoc.net/best_weight_loss_diet
As there was no category for diet, a new one has been added called Diet and Dietary supplements.
Some older threads on these subjects will be moved to this new forum.

[maule5662h]

Thank you, spaceadmin. March 3, 2010

Yes, I pointed out that there is an evidence-based "optimal diet for best human health" and it is not Dr. Graveline's "The Best Weight Loss Diet" that was in last week's spacedoc newsletter.

It is very important to eat for better health, especially if you have maladies from many causes, including damages from taking statins.

The need for good nutrition guidance here is huge - especially when we read the mostly heated disagreement responses that followed my post.

Here is a good baseline --

OPTIMAL NUTRITION FOR BEST HEALTH:
A Plant-Based, Whole-Foods Diet -- centered on starchy plant foods (for enough carb calories) and green and yellow veggies, and some fruits, with no processed oils gives the optimal nutrition for humans since we are designed mainly as plant-eaters. That means avoid/minimize all animal foods, including all meats, poultry, all dairy, all seafoods, and eggs. Avoid/minimize processed foods, including fats/oils and refined carbs (such as white flour) [if it has a label on it, put it back javascript:emoticon(':wink:')].

The simplest example of such a diet is Dr. McDougall's "sweet potatoes and green and yellow vegetables!" He then gives the pros and cons of adding all other foods, including all animal products.

Let's not give this a label "Vegan," that has a lot of considerations beyond nutrition. Note that we are not talking about bad plant-food-based diets such as French fries, catsup and sodas. For babies, provide mother's milk for six months and then add healthy foods and ideally continue with the supplemental nursing till two years old.

My inputs to my classmates and instructors in five nutrition classes that I recent took at our community college is on my website at
http://homepage.mac.com/maule5662h/FileSharing40.html
Please read that and watch the videos of the best healthy lifestyle experts on my site. Then we can communicate, hopefully.

Sincerely, and Civilly -- maule5662h (the tail number of my first Maule airplane)

[maule5662h]

THIS TALK APPLIES FOR HEART HEALTH, TOO.

I'll comment later on Dr. Mercola and the Weston A. Price Foundation -- DON'T FOLLOW!

============
Discussion : Healthy diet for diabetics

http://www.santamariatimes.com/news/opi ... e=comments
.
"Reversing Diabetes with Healthy Lifestyle"

97 minute talk by Jerry Neel, March 4, 2010,
to Society of Vegetarian-Inclined People
(SoVIP) monthly meeting in Santa Maria,
(Orcutt) California.

Video is downloadable:
http://public.me.com/maule5662h
(at top of the list).

Also it is viewable at http://vimeo.com/9957663
(and downloadable there, too).

[maule5662h]

Dr. Campbell Responds to Dr. Mercola -- I mostly reject what Dr. Mercola and his WAPF colleagues are claiming. ...
*www.vegsource.com/.../dr-campbell-responds-to-dr-mercola.html

[maule5662h]

<<
EXCERPT OF INFO:
FORKS OVER KNIVES examines the profound claim that most, if not all, of the so-called “diseases of affluence” that afflict us can be controlled, or even reversed, by rejecting our present menu of animal-based and processed foods. The major storyline in the film traces the personal journeys of a pair of pioneering yet under-appreciated researchers, Dr. T. Colin Campbell and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn.

The idea of food as medicine is put to the test. Throughout the film, cameras follow “reality patients” who have chronic conditions from heart disease to diabetes. Doctors teach these patients how to adopt a whole foods plant-based diet as the primary approach to treat their ailments —while the challenges and triumphs of their journeys are revealed.

[maule5662h]

THUMBS DOWN on new Atkins Diet Book!!!!

Dr. T. Colin Campbell (Author of The China Study)
http://www.tcolincampbell.org/
has just written a commentary on the book The New Atkins for a New You and posted it as a customer review on Amazon. This book is a continuation of the well-known Atkins diet of low-carbs and high protein foods.

The review can be accessed here:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2W7KWZKQY6BGJ/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R2W7KWZKQY6BGJ
<<<<

[Bruce_P]

I'm new here. However, I seriously wonder why you are trying soooo hard to convince everyone to your vegan ways. Insisting you are right and everyone else wrong.

Anyone can read material that "proves" a concept as right. I can quote another 20 professionals to prove I'm right in disagreeing. There is no end to it. Becomes like religion. Does the one who quotes the most win? Or the one who lasts and persists the longest? Na, respect others decisions.

Personally, I dislike names and labels for diets etc, but if it's related to Weston Price, natural, paleo even and common sense I like it. I love my grass fed beef, pastured chickens and eggs, unpasteurized butter made with natural sea salt by local farmers and so on. And will never give that up.

[Bruce_P]

Now being new that is not what I wanted my first post to be!

I would like to personally thank Doctor Graveline for putting this site together. Then for his incredible book (The Statin Damage Crisis) which I received 2 days ago and read cover to cover, picking myself up off the floor numerous times in the process.

I was dx'd with "high" cholesterol and put on Crestor, told diet made no difference 2 years ago and sent on my way. I took it for 3 days (1/2 of dose) as I immediately started to research the issue. It then went where it belongs, in the garbage.

As this thread is on the diet, after over 5,000 hours study with training in research and documentation, and making my living as a website programmer, I support it 100%.
I know the nutritional advice in the book was solid and sensible as well.

And I still love grass fed beef! And my life depends on making the right decisions in a major way as I have serious blockages.

Studies on animal fats are usually done by those who are ignorant of factory farming, and few know what carbs do to insulin among other things. But I refuse to get into a vegan argument.

[ironic]

I think the same as you Bruce_P.
Grassfed meat, wild caught fish, free range eggs, organic salad, broccoli, tree nuts, cheese, butter, that's my ideal diet. I stay away from processed foods, plus no bread, potatoes, rice, pasta, sugar, high fructose corn syrup, vegetable oil etc.

[maule5662h]

This was my response when my doctor tried to convince me to take statins as a person over 50 years old!
<<<<
Letter to Editor 12 Jan 2008

GET REAL: IMPROVE YOUR DIET

Cholesterol-lowering statins drugs are greater than an $8 billion a year business!!

Doctors are now prescribing the drugs as a "Primary Prevention Therapy" for healthy people over the age of 50(?). "Primary prevention" means that you take the statins even though you have never had a "Coronary Heart Disease" (CHD) event of heart attack or stroke and no matter what your cholesterol level is.

University of British Columbia "Therapeutics Initiative Letter, Issue 48," *www.ti.ubc.ca , provides independent, unbiased evidence-based evaluation of this subject from five Primary Prevention studies.

"CONCLUSIONS:

-- If cardiovascular serious adverse events are viewed in isolation, 71 primary prevention patients with cardiovascular risk factors have to be treated with a statin for 3 to 5 years to prevent one myocardial infarction or stroke. (ARR)

-- This cardiovascular benefit is not reflected in two measures of overall health impact: total mortality and total serious adverse events. Therefore, statins have not been shown to provide an overall health benefit in primary prevention trials."

Let's get real and change the bad habits that are causing these lifestyle diseases. Going to the "optimal whole foods, plant-based diet" is the only way to reverse the problems and should be the primary care prescribed and compliance REQUIRED. 80% of the gains come from "correct" nutrition, "correct" exercise gains 20% more. Great results are achieved, as proven by Dr. Ornish, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Fuhrman, etc.
>>>>

[David Staup]

eat a low carb, high fat, high protein restricted calorie diet and live a longer and more enjoyable life!!!!
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2007/June/05060702.asp