Another Lipitor Victim In Rehab.

[Allen1]

Hi there Lars,

the nyckelharpa sounds like a very interesting and varied instrument. From what you mention about the amount of people who own and play one, I am starting to wonder if I have seen one of these beforehand, my memory problems are generally short term but there are also many instances where I can't remember making things or how on earth I did it. You spend a lot of time designing and etching your own circuit boards and making things which was my hobby, nearly all that knowledge, ability and desire to make things is history to me now, good old statins, what more can you say

Well its another day here in la la land ahem I mean the UK, I wonder what the news is today

Good lord our PM must actually have read some of the comment left by others:-

*http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/davidcameron

Maybe its time to add comments about the statin rip off that cost millions of pounds every year and that is well before the cost of tests to see why we get so ill etc.

All the best,
Allen

[lars999]

Hello Allen!

Your links to those articles are giving me a glimpse into Britian, something quite new to me. Yet, I see familier ideas and arguments that I know from elsewhere -- Sweden, Norway, European Russia, Shanghai. Some things really do nead to change -- these Gardian articles remind me of Swedish "novels" by Fogelström that describe the transitions and changes in Sweden during the "Industrial Revolution", as well as the many reports in Russian newspapers of drastic collapses of economic and social conditions after collapse of USSR and rise of organized crime and the ultra rich. Nasty and uncertain times those populations had to muddle through with little constructive actions by leaders!!

Back to statins. Something I have not yet tried to dig up is a study in Norway of the the costs of putting all those healthy Norwegians on statins. I see it referenced in english-language books, most recently either Duane's or Kilmar's or Malcom's. The sheer absurdity of putting the world's most healthy population on statins is mind boggling, even without consideration of costs.

But maybe, just maybe, I learned recently the underlying cause of this insanity, that is, IF I really beleive my cardiologist. Following my treadmill cardio stress test he and I were exchanging "information" about the good and bad sides of statins. His definitive comment left me biting my tongue to keep from saying something nasty but appropriate (I do need some of his skills and knowledge, just not his nonsense about cholesterol). He said--"Every cardiologist takes statins and has for years, those drugs are that wonderful." OK, by now they must collectively be suffering some major cognitive effects. Extrapolating this to all our statin-prescribing doctors, perhaps we have a logical explanation for their bizarr denials of statin adverse side effects. Gads!! such an appealing and horrifying thought!!

Lars

[Allen1]

Hi there Lars,

yes things here in the UK are going downhill very fast with the new government that is in power, what they are doing to the sick and unemployed and young mothers is scandalous, never mind the amount of people they are also adding to the unemployment situation. You don't want to live here, that is for certain, its not a very nice place to be for anyone who is not wealthy or has a high paying job due to this lots actions.


It was my cardiologist that took me off statins for 3 months when my CK levels went high (this was many months after my bypass surgery), I had problems with blood results before but was too fogged up brain wise to know anything about anything back then. Anyway it was while I was off the statins that I found places like this one and I couldn't believe it when I seen all my symptoms being discussed by other folk who went through the very same problems.

Basically speaking after the monthly blood tests were up and it was time to go back onto the statins, I said that I wouldn't take another cholesterol lowering medication ever again, I was offered several types but refused, that was the end of any further appointments with the cardiologist.

Don't get me wrong, My cardiologist was a brilliant bloke, he found the 3 areas that needed bypassing and was quite shocked when he found out just how bad it was. The only problem was the statins, I don't think he was too pleased that I decided to stop.

My own doctor also gave me the "Statins are well tolerated etc speech" next time I saw him along with there is a lot of misinformation on the internet plus the disbelief that any of my problems could be caused by the statins (He is a good doctor besides this). Anyway the last time I had an appointment with my doctor, he had a bandage on his hand, I asked what was wrong and he said he had an operation for carpal tunnel syndrome. I mentioned that I also had that problem a couple of years back which he recalled, my problem sorted itself out as I was removing the plastic wrapping from pallets of goods, I jumped a mile and cursed very VERY loudly, boy did that hurt. From the look on his face when I told him that, I have to say, I think he too is on statins and maybe that is what caused his problem.

Both my ex cardiologist and my doctor are really good people and really want to help their patients, the only problem is either they believed the UK's NICE policy on statins 100% or the drug companies have persuaded them over to the dark side, although I think a little doubt has to be creeping in about the similar symptoms that others must be showing too

Its things like fluoride added to the water and statins and flu shots etc that the governments all around the world should be looking at to save money and the harm that these substance do, but you know that someone somewhere is making money by keeping these things going.

All the best,
Allen

[lars999]

Hello Allen!!

Your description of your cardiologist and GP doctor fit mine quite well. Talking to either about statins is an exercise in something close to total failure, in spite of using the same language.

When I told my cardiologist that my GP doctor had been fired because of the "Lipitor fiasco" there was a total look of incomprehension on his face. His face contorted quite strongly when I told him of all the persons I knew that had quit statins because of their adverse side effects. It got even worse when I told him about providing other statin-takers information about statin's nasty adverse side effects, which resulted in them quiting statins too. Total number of statin quiters I know personally, those that had already quit and those I provided information leading to their quitting, is about 30. The information I provided is well known to everyone on this Discussion Forum, some even funded by USA's NIH.

I have been known to counter the "lots of erronious information on Internet" comment with things like "Worst medical advice I have ever gotten was from licensed medical doctors -- and there have been several such instances". All true.

Aside from one observant PT, ALL the medical information I used to get myself out of doctor-caused messes, was from Internet. Most from such "fly-by-night" groups as USA's NIH and FDA and Mayo Clinic, similar groups in Sweden and Finland and Germany and Austria and Britian, and, and, and. All this "erronious information" was information and courses of treatment, which were verified after the fact (meaning after I had done my homework and taken succesful measures) by licensed medical doctors I had one-time-only visits with. Yes, there have been a string of MDs that really do not want to see me again -- really lousy DR - patient relationship, kinda role reversed, you know!! Cadre of medical doctors needs some culling!!

The persons I really envy are those that took their prescription for statin drugs home and did some Internet searches, and then tossed the prescription in trash. Excellent role models all!!

Lars

[Allen1]

Hi there Lars,

I have also just read your other post ie "the victim is a 70 year old man that was prescribed simvastatin", that was my poison too. I really do hope that he stops taking this or any other cholesterol lowering crap, at 70 what the hell was his doctor thinking! Life is hard enough for younger folk who have been prescribed this toxic, life changing and debilitating pill, at least let the people who have made it to a half decent age enjoy what they can without being forced to endure a painful and mind losing existence that this poison will cause them to have.

The fact that you are passing on the information that you have learned about the side effects is a blessing, especially when people respond to it by stopping the statins. Unfortunately you will come across others who think we are talking rubbish as they have had no ill effects etc, just wait till it happens, at least they were warned about possible outcomes which is more than can be said for so many of us all that time ago when we were put on them. Yet that look is still being used by so many doctors to this day

That look that doctors give you when you mention that you think or believe that most of your symptoms are caused by taking Statins and you have by chance heard of many others in the same predicament has been mentioned by a lot of others on this site and more. :?

It may be prudent to show him this page about Zocor which is Simvastatin by another name :-

*http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=19766&name=ZOCOR

All the best,
Allen :)

[lars999]

Hello Allen!

Initial feedback re that 70-year old simvastatin victin is that his son expects that Papa will stop the statin, perhaps immediately.

Thanks for the additional reference. I will read it and expect to send it along.

It is indeed nice to be able to help others defend themself from statin-prescribing doctors!!

Regards,
Lars

[lars999]

For past several days I have been doing some of things I have been preparing for as I go about ridding myself of nasty adverse side effects of statins. This has exposed pluses and minuses of my efforts. First of all, YEP!! and happily, I could again hold up all day and keep up with others, at least for what we were doing (no strenuous endurance or more than daily activity strength demanded). Yes, I did sleep in several extra hours today, and quite soundly. Second, I have parts of my most Lipitor-affected muscles that remain resistant to rehabing. These muscles made themselves known but did not stop my participation in recent activities. I clearly have lots more rehabing to do for muscles in right calf and left tricepts. Tomorrow is expected to be my first go at cross country skiing this season -- this will be a more demanding physical and endurance test.

I continue to be impressed with how Lipitor has been able to selectively degrade some muscles, in calf of right leg and tricepts of upper left arm, such that these part of these muscles remain more or less totally resistant to treatment. What could be mechanism for this?

Lars

[David Staup]

Lars,

recent events lead me to believe I now understand the mechanism that leads to the individual muscle group resistance to improvement and even atrophy......

Here is the sequence that leads to a physical crash as I understand it.

as we expend effort ATP is converted to ADP to power the effort and the mitochondria crank up the rate of ADP to ATP recycling to keep up with demand. if the demand outstrips the recycling rate ultimately the ATP to ADP ratio becomes so low that continued demand will initiate emergengy measures and the mito start using a process that uses two ADP molecules to make one ATP and one AMP molecules which is promptly lost. As this process continues more and more "potential" ATP is lost and it takes the cell one to four DAYS to replace. Now, and this is one of two key points, when the cell is low on the total of ATP and ADP the switch over to this emergency measure comes sooner and causes even more loss of potential ATP. As a final insult in the worse off of the cells the mitochondria express the Atogen - 1 gene which causes the cell to die. I suspect it's a suicide ment to provide resources for the living cells that remain...that's just speculation though.

when this occurs evenly, more or less, over the body the massive need of the muscle cells for the raw material to make new ATP overwhelms the bodies supply and ALL other cells begi to lose total potential ATP because natural losses cannot be replaced fast enough....every function in the body slows and we suffer a crash and can do little but recover, however slowly.

about 6 weeks ago I had an out of the blue situation occur that in seconds of extreme effort for just my left arm, left it as weak and prone to pain as after a major crash. This did not cause the melaise of a full body crash and hence did not force a recovery period and even though I attempt to limit use of that arm it has not recovered and may even be getting weaker. I suspect I will need to use a sling to enforce recovery or go into complete shutdown while the arm recovers.

[lars999]

David,

Thanks for the condenced analysis! I have been seeing things like this as I read widely and rapidly through lots of stuff. At some point I may attempt to take your analysis further and for my specific situations, especially if I think it will allow me to develop better means of dealing with these nasty effects.

I also think that something like what you describe has been active with me. Last year, before I quit Lipitor, works outs were DECREASING my strength and stamina. I found this really puzzling and bothersome. These workout routines were designed to prevent that and have done so in past years and decades.

In recent weeks I have been again following my general program of workouts but at a much reduced level of physical effort. I look for workout levels of effort that result in slow improvements in weights used, number of reps, duration of aerobic activity, etc. It has been working nicely and the pace of improvements has been steadily increasing for individual muscle groups, although not uniformly across various muscle groups or exercise movements. In general, I still have a long ways to go if I am ever going to return to pre-statin levels of performance, be it strength, endurance, aerobic capacity, etc. Fortunately, so far I seem to have little if any cognitive imparment.

In spite of the most welcome improvements noted above, I get pointed reminders and indications that I can easily overdo various physical activities, even mental ones too. These overexertiations have all happened in "routine life", as I try to return to my old ways. It is a real challange to move from carefully controlled workouts to "routine life", with all of its spontaineous events and demands, as you so clearly describe with your experience with "emergency" use of left arm.

Sometimes this "routine life" level of effort can be more demanding than expected, even without any "emergency" efforts. Recently one of my daughters visited me for two days. We did nothing strenuous but I needed lots of extra hours of sleep the day after she departed. I also needed a couple of days before I could return to workouts.

To describe my progress in terms of your and this post, I can now do a large fraction of things important to my life. But, I cannot do them for as long or with the intensity of effort I used to. One result is that I have become a very private person that avoids public activities I once was active in. Every previous activity I try to recover is proving to have its own set of specific challanges, its own set of unwilling muscles, nerves, joints, etc.

Being stubborn and devious is proving useful.
Lars

[lars999]

Now that I no longer have moving parts of my left shoulder stuck together, I have been able to greatly increase the strength of deltoid and tricepts of that arm, actually to strengths greater than my physically damaged right arm. Finally, I am close to previous, pre-statin relative strengths for both arms!!! It is really wonderful to again have two arms that I can freely wave around and use like they were normal.

Building up stamina in both arms is now the goal.

Wish I could say I got to this happy situation by informed and logical process, instead of via a total accident, but, I will not complain about the process.

Now, IF I could have a similarily useful accident with right leg...............

Lars

[lars999]

I now am convienced that this old man has been suffering cognitive effects from Lipitor. I just regained still another tune I once played from memory on nyckelharpa. Again, as has been the case with each one regained in recent weeks, I have a much clearer mental "picture" of what I am doing with fingers and bow, etc. to play the tune properly. This time I also had an "AH HA!!" moment -- LIPITOR!!!!

I should also tell you that I only started to learn to play nyckelharpa AFTER I had started Lipitor. Perhaps most relevant sequence of events can be summarized breifly as follows: 1) old man meets much younger woman 2) old man decides to learn to play old swedish insturment that much younger woman plays really well, 3) minimal success at learning to play nyckelharpa brings to mind stories about silly old men that get involved with much younger ladies. BUT! NOW I have a much better explanation, one that younger lady agrees with!!!

An Update: This process continues as I go back and recover additional tunes. Basically, this recovery is much more straight forward and much less frustrating than ever before, when I was taking Lipitor.

:D :shock: :!:

[lars999]

I have now done my preliminary trial of the combination of 1,0 gram Acetyl-L-Carnitine, 100 mg of CoQ10 as Ubiquinol and some food (200 calories) before workout as means to further improve my workout performance and decrease post-workout muscle problems. It works as hoped and will be used again, as needed.

The food in this trial was Atkins Chocolate Cocount Bar (170 calories, 110 calories from fat, total fat 12 grams, saturated fat 9 grams -- actually nearly all fat is really medium-chain fat from cocount). This is low-glycemic snack bar. This food was used in part because I really like coconut meat, cream, milk (later two made from cold-pressed coconut oil and water) and in part because I already knew that these coconut products gave me a nice energy boost during my early attempts to get back into workouts, after quiting Lipitor.

Normally, I would not use Atkins and most other propriatary diet foods because of cost. These we found at more than 50% discount locally. Still, they will only be used for specific energy demands, like skiing.

Now we are awaiting fickle early winter weather to provide enough snow cover that we can go cross country skiing without needing "rock skiis".

Lars

[lars999]

My little workout test on 01 December with two suppliments and some food. That had some definite after effects! For following two days I had substantial pains in Lipitor-affected bicepts, deltoids, and other muscles associated with left shoulder, as well as plenty of other "ordinary" sore muscles. That little workout test was actually 1,5X to 2,0X my normal workout, as regards weights and was done at a much faster pace. Actually, it was a good aerobic workout, with upper body instead of legs. SO, pluses and minuses. I could and did do it but, I clearly have a bunch of muscles that are not ready for that on a dialy basis.

Today was my first day back to workout. Happily, I was able to perform as had become SOP on the days before that little test. Not many weeks ago, three days off from working out and I would have to do a reduced level program on first day back. I count that as real progress.

Tuesday I visit a doctor, in part to get some things in blood measured: vitamins B6, D3, homosysteine, total inflamation, metabolic panel, maybe even some useless measurements of cholesterol, LDL, HDL (just for grins and as basis to mess with doctor).

Lars

[lars999]

I have now been downhill skiing twice this week. My first run was a near-disaster but I stayed on top my skiis. I used so much energy on this first, brute-force run that I almost had to stop and rest immediately. I did manage two more runs and then I did have to stop, replenish and nap for half hour. Subsequent 6 runs were lots easier.

Nothing but tired leg and abdomen muscles as consequence of first. Oh, yes, and a lasting smile.

After one day's rest I did it again. This time I did 8 runs and stopped for some refreshments, but no nap, and they moved on to next more difficult slope and did 6 runs. More sore muscles than after first day, probably because of more difficult skiing and higher speeds.

Neither day resulted in "total fatigue", as did identical skiing last season, when I was taking Lipitor. Physically, I felt better late the following day than before I went skiing -- big change from last year, when I needed two days just to recouperate.

NONE of my once badly statin-damaged muscle groups complained, at least not more than others. I used no aspirn, ibuprofen, aleve, etc.

I did not have breathing problems, even at 10.000 feet ( I live at 5000 feet). However, this is not aerobic skiing, as is cross country skiing.

It is really wonderful to be able to do one of my prefered physical activities again!!!

Lars

[lars999]

I see it is a few weeks since I updated this thread. I have been out cross country skiing 5 times now, for about two hours each time. My aerobic capacity is much better than last year, when Lipitor was trashing me. Still, there is lots of room for improvement. I intend to visit a pulonologist sometime in January 2011.

I have been playing around a bit with what and how much Í eat and the suppliments I take just before and during cross country skiing. Clearly, I need some easily digestable, relatively slow calorie release food 10-15 minutes before I start skiing or 1000 mg of Acetyl-L-Carnitine -- both is better. What works best when I stop for a 10-15 min rest is some ginger tea with honey, some more of same food and 100 mg of CoQ10 as Ubiquinol. Here in the high, dry mountains, plenty of fluids is a pretty basic essential, even more so if doing any thing the least aerobic.

I have been pacing myself and, no surprise, a somewhat slower pace lets me ski quite a bit longer than faster paces. I do stop to catch my breath as needed, which is more common than having to stop because my legs needed to. And I watch much younger skiers zip by, some members of nordic ski teams. I remember when I could do that too -- at least I am still out there, at 2X to 3+X the age of those guys and gals.

I am clearly much reduced from my performance only two years ago, when I routinely skied 3,5 to 4,0 hours and was no more tired than I am now after 2,0 hours. Still, there is progress, compaired to last year, when I was so exhausted after 2,0-2,5 hours that I had to spend 30-45 minutes recuperating enough to drive safely down the mountain. This year, so for, I am not exhausted after 2.0-2,5 hours -- tired, yes, exhausted, no.

Yes, I still cuss Lipitor and the doctor that prescribed them, with the lying words -- almost no side effects and what there are are mild -- sheer BS!! He has a place of honor at the top of my "Cholesterol Quacks" list.

Lars

[lars999]

I did an unintended but very informative test on Sunday. I went for my usual cross country ski trip but, without taking my usual Acetyl-L-Carnitine and Ubiquinol (the chemical form of CoQ10 that your body actually uses). I also did not eat my usual energy bar shortly before putting on my skis and heading up the mountain.

I totally forgot to take any of my suppliments at breakfast, then forgot to take Acetyl-L-Carnitine on way to ski area and Ubiqquinol when I got there. Having realized what I had done, I decided to not take either while skiing, as has been my practice.

I had no issues with level of effort while skiing. I was distinctly more tired afterwards, which could simply have been the much colder and rather windy day. However, that evening I had to give it up and go to bed an hour early and was not up to doing my usual, lighter workout the next day. This I attribute to my muscles not having the benefit of additional Acetyl-L-Carnitine and Ubiquinol. At my age, early 70s, my body cannot be expected to produce as much of either biochemical as only a few years ago.

Last year, while still on Lipitor and suffering severe exercise intollerance and not understanding why, I would absolutely need two days of rest and recuperation after just two hours of cross country skiing. This R&R started as soon as I got home, with a 2-3 hour nap. While similar in pattern, this recent experience was much less severe.

I have now been off Lipitor since 10 June 2010. It is nice to have my bod confirm that these two suppliments are effective, at least for sustained aerobic activity by an old man at altitudes between 9.000 and 10.000 feet.

Lars

[BCGuy]

Hello lars999

You are doing everyone a great service sharing what you've learned from your walk through these issues.

Thank you for that

I have a question. I read before finding this site that Statins reduce CoQ10 by up to 50% in the first month of use. I started to take 100mg of Co-Q-10 from Natures Bounty. Now I read of these other forms you and others mention.

They started me on 80mgs of Lipitor after a MI. It was reduced to 40mg after a month, but not after I started to get numbness in my fingers and toes on occasions. I also feel like my legs are heavy with slight joint pain. All of these are not normal for me as I'm 46 and normally in good shape. (except the smoking induced MI that is).

I have been taking the CoQ10 for about a month, along with other suppliments.
I decided after reading more info here and other sites to start weaning off the Statin, and eventually the other Meds later.

Do you think it's still the Lipitor that has me feeling this way at about 10 mgs a day? Or could it be some of the other meds? I have a dry cough that I've been told is the Altace.

I do realize you or anyone else here is not a doctor, but I do respect your opinions and believe you could lead me to my own conclusions.

The doctors don't seem to listen to my concerns here.

I see the Med book and perscription pad on his desk and wonder what he could do without them.

Thanks a bunch...........BCGuy

[David Staup]

BCguy

ok here is the whole story as I understand it but before I explain to answer your question yes stop the statin! you've gotten to the point where you can safely do that but if your concerned cut the 10 to 5 for 1 week then 2.5 for one week then stop!

now here is what happens...first understand that your fatigue is due to mitochondrial dysfunction, see here (just the title says it all:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2849981/

now the coq10 connection is this, coq10 is part of the electron transport chain which is responsible for almost 90% of the atp production in the cells (atp is what powers the cells, all of them) and it is the only antioxidant within the mitochondria. so in addition to causing poor atp production depleted coq10 also "allows" mutations to occur to both the mito DNA and the nuclear DNA (mtDNA and nDNA) and these mutations can cause further dysfunction affecting atp production!!!

see here for the connection between mitochondrial dysfunction and fatigue (lack of stamina):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2680051/

and here for a discussion of these mutations (with mention of the study):

http://www.iacfsme.org/CFSandtheExercis ... fault.aspx

also here for a test that can confirm (a two day exercise tolerance test)

http://www.cfsresearch.org/cfs/bell/cfs ... isease.htm

you can get a better explaination of the mito function here:

http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_CFS_Bo ... rah_Myhill

and some discussion of the correct type of exercise to combat this here:

http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Exercise_-_t ... e_Syndrome

anf finally 2 things to understand

1. you should NOT exercise until the DNA repair mechanisms have done all that they can! exercising before that only prolongs and exacerbates the mutations and recovery.

2. gradually up your coq10 to ~400mg x2 per day (Doc G recommended to me that I do that and not to attempt to increase activity for 3 months!!!)

finally here is a decent explaination of mito function with a diagram:

http://medicalcenter.web.id/health-blog ... tatin.html

this is all quite long and complicated but understanding it is important!

good luck and happy reading

[lars999]

BCGuy,

I am glad that you find what I have written on this forum to be useful. That is my primary reason for doing it. I have found that feedback from many others here to have been invaluable -- I sure could not have gotten that from any statin and cholesterol quack doctor!

I was only taking 10 mg Lipitor and it really did a number on my stamina. I was down to where I could only drive a car for one hour, walk slowly for only about one mile, naps, naps, lotsa naps. After only two weeks off Lipitor I was able to drive 5-7 hours a day for four days. I participated in a two-day, rather non-stop weekend and only slept at night. BIG CHANGE!!

I simply quit Lipitor. Tapering off seems smarter. IF I had any adverse reaction to abruptly quitting, it could well have been lost in the rapid changes for better in weeks after quitting.

I did not do any of the things David S. mentions in above post to recover "gracefully". Maybe I should have. I probably effectively did some, like not overdoing attempts at rehab, simply because my exercise tolerance was so low. I am also sorta, fundamentally lazy. I work out because that is better than the consequences of not doing so.

I started with one of the forms of CoQ10 that is dissolved in oil and then switched to a "QSorb" version. I really cannot say how well either of them worked because there was such a rapid improvement in my stamina, once I stopped Lipitor.

I can say that once I got nicely back into workouts, I had to up my intake of "QSorb" CoQ10 by 50% to see any change in my energy level during those early workouts after quitting Lipitor. I went to Ubiquinol because of an article written by either Peter Långsjøen or his father, Per, or both. They are the folks that worked with Kaneka Ltd., Japan to develop a formulation of Ubiquinol that is stable enough to have a useful shelf life. Ubiquinol is the active, chemically reduced form of Coq10 that is the strong anti-oxidant that is essential to proper functioning of mitochondria. As body uses Ubiquinol, it is converted to Ubiquinone and body then converts it back to Ubiquinol for further use. Most CoQ10 is ubiquinone, which is very chemically stable and has long shelf life. However, ubiquinone is not very soluble in gut, unless some measure is taken to greatly increase its solubility. Ubiquinol definitely increased my energy level more during workouts than the QSorb formulation. The fundamental advantage of Uniquinol is that body can use it directly.

Purely for having good energy level for workouts, skiing, meetings (especially long ones) I find Ubiquinol and Acetyl-L-Carnitine to be essential. However, I do not notice much, if any, advantage if not doing energy-demanding activities. In part these suppliments may well be needed because I am now in my 70s and old bod most certainly is no longer making as much of these two essential biochemicals as when I was 50 something. I also find that eating protein and fat rich meals is a great way to keep my energy up. Lots of carbs are an energy-killer but are wonderful sleepytime and weight gain foods.

From all I read, statin drugs do seem to have real value for middle-aged men during the days and weeks and perhaps months after a heart attack. This seems to happen so quickly that the biochemical mechanism would appear to have nothing to do with lowering cholesterol or lipoproteins. Because I have never had a heart attack, I have not been educating myself much about the role of statins for younger guys following heart attacks.

Best wishes for recovery!
Lars

[Nancy W]

David and Lars, As usual, you guys rock.

BC Guy, Though gleaning all the pearls of wisdom from this site takes some time, it is worth doing. You will learn a lot, probably more than your doctor (and his prescription pad) ever will...

My first statin episode was due to Lipitor, now maybe 12 years ago. One month of Lipitor, same dose you were on, and then onset of severe muscle pain, so I cold-turkeyed the Lipitor. It took twelve weeks for the symptoms to abate. Fast forward ten years later. I got talked into trying a "low dose" of Red Yeast Rice. (Neither time was CoQ 10 prescribed.) One month later, same thing, "same song, second verse, a little bit louder and a little bit worse!" Or a lot worse. It has taken me 18 months to get to the point where I would say my progress has gotten me to the point where I think I will try going back to exercise again. I tried last year, but with lingering problems of fatigue, poor exercise tolerance. I have again rested, this time for another three months. I notice my stamina, while not normal, is improving pretty nicely now.

You will definitely have to educate yourself from the links and info you find here. Read some of the books by the featured docs. Dr. Graveline's newest, The Dark Side of Statins, talks about the mitochondria, and has great info, but then, so do his others. Once you get some of this figured out, you will probably find yourself experimenting to see which types of supplements help you the most, which brands, etc. Each of our physiologies is different. Reading here, you will glean that we are not all on carbon copies of supplements. But you will get the idea.

Good luck! Nancy