BE CAUTIOUS WITH VITAMIN D

[Biologist]

Hi, Brian.

I haven't a clue. Good question. No comment. You might want to try the citrate for a few months, or you might be able to find some research on it?

BTW, I should have mentioned that with ZRT, they provide a prepaid UPS envelope for the sample, so that is good. They are in Beaverton, OR.

Why this test is so expensive I do not know. Many other tests are like $30.

Biologist

[valgators]

While we're on the subject of tests, has anyone had their Q10 levels checked? I saw where it could be ordered via a lab but the cost was around $165.

Anyone had COQ 10 tested? Just curious.

Valgators

[cjbrooksjc]

Interesting discourse on Magnesium can be found at the following link including the reason I use Magnesium MALATE (though, as a total layman, I do resist complicating this issue).

**http://askwaltstollmd.com/archives/mg/1201.html

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In general it seems to have the potential to improve energy and decrease muscle pain. Most of the research I've seen has focused on people with Fibromyalgia and CFIDs. Here are a few excerpts from articles I've found.

A Follow-Up on Malic Acid:

Leading health care professionals familiar with CFIDS are continuing to recommend a new substance for the chronic muscle soreness and fatigue. They have found that patients using a combination of malic acid and magnesium hydroxide report improvements-with reduction of muscle pain and tiredness.

Dr. Peterson comments, "the patients who improved reported diminishing symptoms... and an increase in exercise tolerance." He reports that 40% of those who try the supplement will benefit from it.

Dr. Goldstein explains, "it may have a modest effect on fatigue and/or other symptoms. Fibromyalgia pain may respond within 48 hours, while fatigue may take about two weeks."

One of the many people who have benefited by taking malic acid and magnesium hydroxide is Ann Lessel of Westlake Village, CA. "After about four days I noticed my energy level and stamina was beginning to increase," she reports. "After taking the product for three weeks I had an incredible amount of energy. For the first time in the six years that I have been sick, I can say I feel normal. I now have been on the product for about two months, and am keeping up a pace that would make a healthy person tired."

The effectiveness of the product has a sound scientific base. Malic acid, a fruit acid, extracted from apples and widely used in the food industry, is essential in the formation of ATP, which is our body's energy source. Malic acid has the ability to allow the body to make ATP more efficiently, even under low oxygen, or hypoxic conditions. Magnesium is a mineral which is required for normal activity, including those enzymes which function in energy transfer.

"Malic acid is a primary ingredient in apples," explains Dr. Cheney. "It is a primary component of the Kreb's citric acid cycle where fats and glucose are converted to energy. It may promote cellular production of energy (cellular respiration)."

A recent study in the Journal of Nutritional Medicine postulates that muscle pain and fatigue are predominantly caused by the breakdown of muscle proteins due to a deficiency of oxygen and other substances needed for ATP production. Further, the study presented data supporting the critical role of magnesium and malic acid in ATP production under hypoxic conditions.

Most physicians start their patients on malic acid/magnesium hydroxide slowly, working up to between six and 12 capsules daily. It is also recommended to be taken with food and water. Although safe, sensitive people may experience slight gastrointestinal problems. These can usually be eliminated by reducing the dosage. Finally, patients must try it for a period of time to see whether they will benefit from its use.

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Best,

Brooks

[Dee]

Thanks, Brooks.

I also have Fibromyalgia (many years pre-statin) and have heard of using malic acid, but have not tried it.

It's confusing trying to find malic acid, is it the same thing as magnesium malate?

I did find the magnesium hydroxide in pure form and it is Phillips' Milk of Magnesia. At 500mg / Tbs the dose could be adjusted so you didn't get the laxative effect, I would think.

When I looked for malic acid on Vitacost and Iherb, they seem to add all different forms of magnesium depending on the brand, but hardly any specifically add magnesium hydroxide.

Also, I wonder if anyone has tried NADH for mitochondrial / energy issues.

[cjbrooksjc]

Dee: Yes, Magnesium Malate is the same contains malic acid. **gonsi.com is a good source.

[Biologist]

Interesting, Brooks.

Biologist

[maule5662h]

Vitamin D Pills Are of Little or No Benefit and Some Harm. So What to Do Now?

According to popular opinions coming from friends, family, and physicians, most people are vitamin D deficient and in need of supplementation with pills. Evidence suggests that more than 40% of the world's population is vitamin D deficient (1). A recent report from a Scottish doctor found only 2% of his patients had a sufficient vitamin D concentration (75 nmol/L or above), and 47% had a severe deficiency (below 25 nmol/L) (2). Low vitamin D levels found in the blood are a clear indication that there is a worldwide problem of sunlight deficiency. Rather than correct the problem and encourage people to expose themselves to more of this natural element, the solution has become another drug â€â€

[rkcannon]

So what are you supposed to do in the winter?

I've read summaries (Science News a couple years back) about Vit D supplements in elderly helping their energy levels quite a bit.

And rickets respond to D supplements. Note per Dr Cannell that magnesium is also needed and that unresponsive rickets cases responed when mg was also given.

I supplemented with about 4-5k of D3 last winter and tested my levels in Mar. after stopping a few weeks, thinking maybe I had too much. (vitamindcouncil.org has a deal for $70- they get 10 I think) My level was 47. 80 is optimal. Another guy at work - his doctor was monitoring his and giving the D2 50k doses and his got up to about 50.

One benefit of sunlight is the IR you get through the skin. THere is a good book called Sauna Therapy by Wilson. I made one- get 3 IR lamps and mount them. THe Phillips is better with the long filament. The IR penetrates the skin deeper and heats deeper than air or steam conduction. The idea is to increase body temp artificially. You get a good sweat going for sure. You need a small enclosed space like toilet stall.

It also helps excrete mercury and other toxins. I wonder if Dr Graveline's problem and others may be mercury. It is hard to get rid of and really screws up the cell's energy. Also some bacteria eat the stuff. There are a lot of sources such as fillings for one, White Tuna etc. That's another subject. Also the above author cured his chronic fatigue with it and monitored his excretion of heavy metals with hair analysis.

[vicki]

I'm no doctor (and they don't know either)

I became low in Vit. D on Statins
I developed CLL cancer
On the CLL cancer site we have been looking and reading about low Vitamin D causeing cancer.
Is their a connection to low Vitamin D and Cancer? Do a web search on low vitamin D and cancer, many articles on the web.

My point is have your Vit. D checked they are finding it is really important !

good article here: http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/health/05-09VitaD.asp

[vicki]

we are all low on vitamin D, here's a good article:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Vitamin-D.html

[lars999]

After about three months on 6.000 IUs per day of vitamin D3 I got my very first ever measurement of vitamins D3 and D2 in my blood serum -- 34 nano grams/ml of D3 and less than 4 nano grams/ml of D2.

"Normal" range stated to be 30-100 ng/ml. Looks like vitamin D3 suppliment will be a part of my daily life for forseeable future.

Lars

[maule5662h]

Lars
======================
Best to get your Vitamin D from sun (or even tanning bed). Though the tested level comes higher with supplements, the body may not get the benefits that way. Dr. McDougall at drmcdougall.com has info/analysis on this. I am lucky to have a nice private backyard for sunbathing here in Santa Maria CA and going from Nov. '09 to April '10 with regular sun exposure (never burned or peeled), those winter months of low sun strength yielded a measured level of 43! Should be even higher now from 7 more months of addictive sunning. I won't get a new testing -- costs ~$200, though Medicare did cover the April tests.

[maule5662h]

Vitamin D Pills Are of Little or No Benefit and Some Harm. So What to Do Now?

According to popular opinions coming from friends, family, and physicians, most people are vitamin D deficient and in need of supplementation with pills. Evidence suggests that more than 40% of the worlds population is vitamin D deficient (1). A recent report from a Scottish doctor found only 2% of his patients had a sufficient vitamin D concentration (75 nmol/L or above), and 47% had a severe deficiency (below 25 nmol/L) (2). Low vitamin D levels found in the blood are a clear indication that there is a worldwide problem of sunlight deficiency. Rather than correct the problem and encourage people to expose themselves to more of this natural element, the solution has become another drug - a supplement pill sold as vitamin D.

According to the authors of a landmark editorial just published in the March 2, 2010 issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine, Despite the promise for disease prevention suggested by available studies, we believe that the evidence for widespread use of high-dose vitamin D supplementation in the general population remains insufficient (3). Even though the supplements translate into higher levels of vitamin D in the blood, expected benefits of reductions in the occurrences of common diseases are lacking.

Recent vitamin frenzies over the recommendations for the widespread use of antioxidants, folic acid, vitamin E, and beta-carotene provide lessons about vitamin supplements that must not be forgotten. When the proper research was finally done, the results backfired. More heart disease, cancer, and overall death were discovered in those taking these isolated concentrated nutrients (4-9). Each of the above nutrients is originally found in edible plants. In these perfect packages these nutrients provide for excellent health, prevent and cure diseases, and prolong life.

When consumed as isolated concentrated nutrients wrapped in a pill-casing, vitamin D supplements cause nutritional imbalances, which leads to metabolic sicknesses. At dosages considered safe, an increase in bad LDL-cholesterol, prostate cancer, immune system suppression, autoimmune diseases, gastrointestinal symptoms, kidney disease, and calcium stones has been observed (10-16). The adverse effects of vitamin D therapy are understudied, underestimated, and underreported.

Confounding Factors Inflate the Benefits of Vitamin D
ETC.!
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Oh - Dr. McD has a real expert on Vit. D as one of the speakers at his next "Advanced Study Weekend" in Feb. 2011, in Santa Rosa CA. Take a well-deserved vacation and go there!!

[lars999]

Hello maule566h!

I got into taking a few suppliments for first time in my life to assist my recovery from very nasty Lipitor adverse side effects that were trashing my life and threatening to kill me. For this the few I have used have been helpful. Now that I am 6 months after quiting Lipitor, I am becoming a little concerned how to use suppliments in coming months, years, etc.

Vitamin D3 was last of suppliments I added to my rather short list of specific suppliments -- Omega-3 rich fish oil, CoQ10 as ubiquinol, vitamins B6, 12 and follic acid, vitamin C and Aceyl-L-Carnitine. ALL provided a nice increase in energy, stamina, physical performance and/or freedom from pain. Every now and then I do a small, short-duration, unscheduled experiment when I fail to take my suppliments -- they still do make a very welcome improvement.

Frankly, I have become a major skeptic of just about every thing in the world of medicine, including suppliments, and especially ALL recently introduced drugs. Lipitor gave me a big push down that road, following the untimely death of a few friends, thanks to doctors and gee-whiz treatments. I further got that way by reading a few too many reports of clinical studies, with their shady statistical analysis of flimsy data. As a group, doctor's newsletters are not a highly valued source of reliable information to me. I only read Duane Graveline's, simply because I can and have validated what he writes.

Back to vitamin D3. On the assumption that inside those little gel caps is the same cod liver oil that my ancesters took for generations and generations, I sure have no qualms about following their example, while avoiding the nasty taste of cod liver oil -- which I remember all too well from childhood.

Now that I am again able to get out and about, skiing, hiking, and other outdoors activities up in mountains, perhaps my vitamin D3 levels will improve even more. In any case, I am greatly enjoying being more than a mere shadow of my former self, caused by Lipitor. Getting my vitamin D3 the natural way would be a wonderful step!

Lastly, I am trying to stop ALL perscribed medications and only have two remaining, neither of which I have any real hope of stopping.

Lars

[maule5662h]

Lars - Good to hear from you. You are on a good path of getting better educated on what supports a "Healthy Lifestyle."

Dr. Graveline has been great for aiding us on the problems with statins. He is not the optimal source for nutrition advice or education. You can read some of my past posts on nutrition and the dustup caused by presenting that!

Happy Holidays and continued improving health!!

Bill Kleinbauer 805/938-1405
======================
OPTIMAL NUTRITION FOR BEST HEALTH - A Plant-Based, Whole-Foods Diet - centered on starchy plant foods (for enough carb calories) and green and yellow veggies, and some fruits, with no processed oils gives the optimal nutrition for humans since we are designed mainly as plant-eaters. That means avoid/minimize all animal foods, including all meats, poultry, all dairy, all seafoods, and eggs. Avoid/minimize processed foods, including fats/oils and refined carbs (such as white flour).

[lars999]

Bill,

Couple of things you would have no way of knowing, 1) Duane and I crossed paths long ago, although we never actually met but do share more interesting activities than he may ever know. 2) I am decidedly a carnivore so, all animal foods, including all meats, poultry, all dairy, all seafoods, and eggs are consumed, enjoyed and benifited from greatly. Veggies and nuts are eagerly sought and enjoyed -- so, I am no purist, more a Russian bear than a Germanic wolf.

I do agree with you about avoiding highly modified fats, oils and carbs -- better living through chemisty has its limits. FYI, I do usually fall short of mimiking those fabled hunter-gathers too closely.

May you too have a long and healthy life!!
Lars

[maule5662h]

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Both bears and wolfs are omnivores.

Lars - I strongly doubt the "benefit from greatly." Let's delve a bit.

You mentioned that you are on two medications that you need to always stay on. If those are for high blood pressure or diabetes (type 2), changing to the optimal nutrition for humans quickly reverses those maladies caused by bad nutrition. (The medications work on symptoms and risk factors, not on adding to longevity.)

We are not "decidedly carnivore.!" We are designed as plant-eaters, herbivores, from the mouth and to the other end and in other parts of our bodies -- the reproductive area, for example.

Do get further educated by the best experts on human health/nutrition. Try the best diet approach for a month. You may feel worse at the start as you deal with detoxing and breaking addictions. You will be rewarded for your making big changes.

I can put you on the email list for my periodic postings of health info that I gather. Reach me at *maule5662h@aol.com

Make this an exciting journey to the best health for you and yours this coming new year!

[David Staup]

Maule you really are a hoot...

you believe your opinion is worth more than Lar's EXPERIENCE

lots of hubris in all your rediculous postings

now if you will excuse me I've already had my 3 egg and 4 bacon with avacodo breakfast... now it's on to a real nicely marbled ribeye, saute'd baby boc choy and select fine cheeses for lunch ummmm so good and good for you too!!!!!

[maule5662h]

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David: At least I did not get sucked into taking statins (except for a 3 month trial urged by my PCF -- who follows established medical protocols to avoid lawsuits).

[Allen1]

Lentil burger anyone


maule5662h for goodness sake stop with the trolling.
You clearly are saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

As I previously mentioned, people who have had bad side effects from using statins or those who have had there cholesterol reduced by them, have their ability to convert sunlight to vitamin D compromised. You need cholesterol as part of the conversion process, as people are no longer getting many of the nutrients etc that they would have normally made through the bodies converting and manufacturing abilities which are now impaired, the only other solution is to take supplements to boost what should have otherwise been there.

Why don't you take yourself and Dr. McDougal to see Florence, Mister Rusty Ermantrude, Dillon and Zebedy at The Magic Roundabout cause quite frankly you would fit in there quite well and your Doc is sounding like a good fit for Dougal the dog! but there again they are probably more realistic in there outlook on life than your own blinkered look on life.

Go on eat a cow and taste the meat, add a few eggs and bacon and live a little.