Stopped the Statin - Please post the Natural Cure!

[mikemix]

Hi All,

I am new to this forum, but like everyone else here am glad I found it. I am a 35 year old male with a history of high cholesterol, which comes from my fathers side. I was put on 20mg Pravachol in 1991 or 1992, and until my doc switched me to Baycol in 2000 or 2001 had always been on Pravachol. Well, you may or may not know that Baycol was banned because of a high incident of death. So I went back on the Pravachol until early this year, when another doc switched me to Zocor. I have been on Zocor for about 10 months but on Statins for about 14-15 years.

In 2001 I had an incident where I was saw flashes of light in my eye, and had my field of vision impaired briefly. Ever sense 2001, I have had about 6 more of these episodes which last for about an hour but are very scary. When I did some reading and saw my primary doc, it appeared to be an "eye migraine" with an "Aura". I have never had a history of migraines, or headaches, so I was obviously scared. Now that I see all the symptoms here, I am wondering if the statin was a culprit... ? Any thoughts? Nevertheless, I decided to stop taking my statin and try to experiment with some other natural remedies. I bought some Q10 from Costco and need some other suggestions on what I might do. Here are a few questions for anyone who can help.


1. If your Q10 has been depleated by the Statin, does it come back after you stop taking the statin or is it permanetely impacted? Can I get that level tested? How? and should I?

2. Anyone using some natural remedies that are proven effective? If so, what are they? What should I be doing, other than the DRUGS. :evil: What is your plan other than diet and exercise (which is a given).

3. I found a site that looks promising, talking about a product called Lipidshield. Does it work, is it a scam?? Here is the website in case anyone is interested:

[http://www.lipidshield.com/index2.html]

By the way, I also drink (USED TO AS OF NOW) a lot of diet colas.. I am hearing some dreadful things about aspartame. I think that could cause many people some problems as well.

I appreciate your comments and help. :)

Mike

[shawk]

Welcome aboard Mike...

I would suggest reading every thread and topic on this board, it will give you a lot of the answers to the questions you are asking.

Yes, get off the diet soda's....for comparitive analysis only...regular sugared soda is actually better for you than diet soda....although I do not drink either anymore....

[quote]In 2001 I had an incident where I was saw flashes of light in my eye, and had my field of vision impaired briefly. Ever sense 2001, I have had about 6 more of these episodes which last for about an hour but are very scary. When I did some reading and saw my primary doc, it appeared to be an "eye migraine" with an "Aura". I have never had a history of migraines, or headaches, so I was obviously scared. Now that I see all the symptoms here, I am wondering if the statin was a culprit... ? Any thoughts?[/quote]

When you were drinking diet cola's was it always in the can?

The reason I am asking is because a high content of aluminum in your blood could be causing the migraine's and the eye issue.....

The aluminum in your blood could be caused by drinking an abnormal amount of canned soda or beer....Migraines can be caused by too much aluminum in the blood...and by aspartame and splenda, both of which have low amounts of arsenic, that build up in the body over time...Large amounts of caffiene and nictoine can also casue migraines and the "aura' issue...the largest cause of migraines for people is poor diet and large amounts of stress...

There ae now also studies that suggest high levels of Cholestrol may also be caused by stress...

Stress is a killer and we do nothing to alleivate it...


Find a health care practisioner that performs hair testing and ask them to perform a mineral test....this test will show you how much mineral /poisons are in the body...A hair test is preferred because a blood test will not pick up certain minerals/poisons in the body....

[sos_group_owner]

Hi Mikey,

Following 8 years of statins, my husband experienced 'visual disturbance' in one eye and sounds very similar to your description. He described it as a 'cloud moving across his vision', also some flashes. The diagnosis was 'amaurosis fugax'.

All 3 of these article by Dr Graveline have accounts of visual distrubances due to statins:
'The lower half of my vision in that eye looked as if I had looked at a bright light and looked away I can still partially see through it but with difficulty ...'
www.spacedoc.net/neurodegenerative_diseases_statins.htm

'I've had shakes and chills, and shaky vision in my left eye. ... Vision problems too. I feel like a mess.'
www.spacedoc.net/statins_insomnia.html

'.. muscle pain in the arms and legs, knee pain, back pain, and blurred vision, all potentially permanent, I would have asked who is trying to kill me? ...'
www.spacedoc.net/law/statin_damaged_lawyer.htm

Visual distrubances are a known adverse effect of statins.

Fran

[CABOSUN]

Two foods combined, 1/2 cup each day of each of these.....fresh or frozen blueberries and raw organic walnuts.......if you eat these two foods everyday, your cholesterol will drop by at least 30 to 40 points in one months time. Also, stay away from all unatural fake so called foods and sweetners. exercise in one form or another for at least 3o minutes a day! take charge of your health, because Dr's do not know the first thing about wellness. they sure do know how to push those drug's though

[CABOSUN]

Also, go here and listen to the radio interview that Bryon Richards did with Mike Adams from [www.newstarget.com] It's one hour long, but something that EVERY american needs to listen to.

[http://www.tiwradio.com/radio.php]

[mikemix]

Thanks so much everyone who replied. I really like this forum.. I will try the walnuts and blueberries.. I also will quit drinking from aluminum cans (which I did A LOT!!!).. In fact, I have also cut out most caffeine (except a non fat mocha and Ice Tea once in awhile) and all types of sodas other than Sprite and Sierra Mist.

One thing I forgot to mention, is that I also recently began suffering from some depression, which I am now also pointing either to the statins or the aspartame.. I have quit both now for over 2 weeks... I am not feeling as "blue" as I used to!! I will just have to see how it goes...

I have been on the statins for so long that I feel I can "Test" my body to see what it's like off of them. So far, my mind doesn't seem as "foggy" and I seem less depressed. Depression is not something that I normally experience until the about June/July of this year. I do feel better overall..

Any other quick tips for lowering cholesterol? Anyone check out that Lipidshield??

I hope you all had a nice Thanksgiving.

Thanks,

Mikey

[sos_group_owner]

Hi Mikey,

Re: Any other quick tips for lowering cholesterol? Anyone check out that Lipidshield??

The problem is not cholesterol, it's "inflammation" or better stated "oxidized LDL".

Dr Graveline's "Statin Alternatives" reduce and prevent inflammation, are anti-oxidants, reduce platelet stickiness, control (toxic) homocysteine and have the same anti-inflammatory affect as 20 mg's of Lipitor, without side effects.

"Statin Alternatives" are NOT intended to reduce cholesterol levels. Statins (as do statin alternatives) reduce the type of inflammation that leads to heart attacks and strokes. The fact that statins also reduce cholesterol levels is "irrelevant".

Source: http://www.spacedoc.net/statin_alternatives.htm

Dr Graveline's Statin Alternatives
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Buffered Aspirin - 81 mg (contains beneficial magnesium)
CoQ10 - 100 to 150 mg (gelcaps - NOT powdered) with some Vit E
* Folic Acid - 400-800 mcg
* B6 - 80-100mg
* B12 - 200-250mcg
* (all 3 of these B Vitamins control Homocysteine)
Omega 3 (Fish Oil or Cod Liver Oil) - There is no upper limit

Note: CoQ10 should be gelcaps (not powdered in a capsule), contain some vitamin E or taken with vitamin E. Vitamin E should be d-Alpha (natural) and NOT dl-Alpha (synthetic). An even better source of vitamin E is one that contains both tocopherol and tocotrienols and from all eight sources: alpha, beta, gamma, delta.
Good article that discusses "vitamin E":
[http://www.vitamine-factor.com/family.htm]

This is my recommendation: If you are "aspirin sensitive", grape seed extract (GSE) is a good alternative (reduces platelet stickiness/prevents blood clots).

What were your cholesterol numbers before statins?
Was your problem LDL, HDL and/or triglycerides?

Fran

[Dee]

Fran,
With the fish oil, what is the "minimum" we should take? Dee

[JIMNSC]

Fran can correct me if I'm wrong but the minimum should be 2 grams.

[Dee]

I'm thinking 1000mg is a gram? I am taking 3 X 1000mg (3grams) once a day, so that should be good?

[sos_group_owner]

Hi Dee & Jim,

I prefer CLO (cod liver oil) as it also contains vitamin D. Omega 3 fish oil should be taken with a full-spectrum vitamin E (tocotrienols & tocopherols - alpha, beta, gamma, delta) - to improve effectiveness and avoid "lipid peroxidation".

I would say for starters... 1000 mg and increase gradually to avoid intestinal upset... 3 grams is a very good dose. Carlson's is a bit pricey (available in lemon essence liquid and capsules), but excellent quality. I keep all fish oils in the frig to avoid becoming rancid.

Fran

[Dee]

Thanks Fran and Jim,

I guess we are doing OK on the dose. We also keep ours in the frig, but with all the other stuff we are taking, we do have to go the budget route. I do check out reports on Consumer Labs to make sure we get a good product.

[vipergg22]

Take 1500 mgs a day of cinnamon in capsule form can lower your levels over 25% . The data is backed up by the USDA . Read here [http://www.ars.usda.gov/Research/docs.htm?docid=8877] . Best of all no side effects to worry about . If you would rather have it on your toast or on top of say apples you can get it that way too . I find the capsules easier to deal with .

[Dee]

I take 1000mg of cinnamon per day. Blood test results from Nov.:

A1c .....6.0 (Normal by lab standards...best reading in years!)
Total Cholesterol 193

[adec]

Dee said, """I take 1000mg of cinnamon per day. Blood test results from
Nov.:

A1c .....6.0 (Normal by lab standards...best reading in years!)
Total Cholesterol 193"""

Awesome Dee!!! Reading this makes me so happy. Thanks for taking the time to keep us informed. My mom had similarly good results on her cholesterol using cinnamon. Better even than the statins. My mom's doctor even started suggesting cinnamon to all of his patients suffering from hypercholesterolemia. She finally found a great doctor who actually CARES about his patients, and isn't bought and paid for by the pharmaceuticals.

As far as Jim's initial question on LipidShield, personally I wouldn't take it. Firstly, it includes Red Yeast Rice, which is a natural statin ingredient or . As per Dr. Graveline's experience, as little as 5mg daily of a statin can cause side effects. Two Red Rice Yeast capsules (1200mg) contain approximately 5mg of statins.



However, here are some cheap, and proven remedies to lower bad cholesterol (LDL) and raise good cholesterol (HDL):

1. STANOL/STEROL PLANT ESTERS.... these are found in margarine spreads, such as Benecol and Promise's Take Control, and in supplements such as Nature Made's Cholest-Off. Can lower total cholesterol by as much as 25%.

2. NIACIN (vitamin B3).... work your way up from 250-500mg to 1000mg a day, as the flushing subsides. Some people flush more than others. Myself, I started taking niacin, and was able to work up to 1500mg a day, without any flushing in a period of 1 month. Make sure to have your liver enzymes checked by your doctor, if taking over 1000mg daily though. It has been proven to increase good HDL cholesterol, decrease triglycerides, and lower bad LDL cholesterol.

3. PSYLLIUM HUSK.... you can buy the Now brand in bags very cheaply at most health food stores... $3 a pound. Start with 1 teaspoon daily in 8oz of water or juice, and work your way up to 1 tablespoon. Or you can pay exorbitant amounts for the same ingredient in Metamucil.

4. CINNAMON.... 1000mg a day can reduce total cholesterol by as much as 25%. Also helps to keep blood sugar levels at a healthy level.

5. REDUCE YOUR INTAKE OF WHITE BREAD, AND FIND FIBROUS WHITE WHEAT SUBSTITUTES. White wheat eliminates the bitter taste of whole wheat, and yet tastes very similar to white bread, almost sweet in comparison. You can find products in the most grocery stores such as Wonder Bread: White Bread Fans 100% Whole Grain, Whole Grain White, and Wonder Kids (which contains 3gms of fiber per slice, and tastes most like white bread.)

6. USE ONLY HEART HEALTHY CANOLA AND OLIVE OIL (especially extra virgin).... lower in saturated fats, rich in Omega 3s and high in healthy monounsaturated fats.

7. ELIMINATE ALL TRANS-FATS FROM YOUR DIET! Read the labels. In the ingredient listing, if it say contains "hydrogenated" or "partially hydrogenated oil" don't buy it, don't eat it. Some 'great' tasting margarine spreads free from hydrogenation and rich with Omega-3 oils include: Smart Balance 67%, Promise's Buttery Spread. These taste great! Olivio and I Can't Believe it's not Butter, unfortunately still use partially hydrogenated oils, but are able to list being trans-fat free based on new federal guidelines of less than .05%.

8. DRINK WINE IN MODERATION, OR GRAPE JUICE, OR GRAPE SEED EXTRACT. All help to lower bad cholesterol and raise good cholesterol, and are beneficial in so many more ways: in reducing inflammation, heart disease, and cancer risk.

Do at least five of these things and I almost GUARANTEE anyone with a total cholesterol level of 250 or higher reduces that number by 50 or more points, over the next few months.

Good luck.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi 'adec',

Re: NIACIN (vitamin B3)

Theraputic doses of niacin, even in doses as low as 250 mg can cause elevated homocysteine. Elevated homocysteine is more of a risk factor than 'so called' elevated cholesterol.

Re: HEART HEALTHY CANOLA AND OLIVE OIL (especially extra virgin).... lower in saturated fats, rich in Omega 3s and high in healthy monounsaturated fats.

There are some saturated fats that are beneficial; specifically coconut oil and butter. Coconut oil, rich in lauric acid, has strong antifungal and antimicrobial properties. Butter contains these beneficial fat soluble vitamins: vitamin A or retinol, vitamin D, vitamin K and vitamin E.

To read everything you ever wanted to know about 'all fats'... Dr Mary Enig of Weston A Price Foundation is the guru... "The Skinny on Fats":
[http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html]

Fran

[adec]

Fran,

For me, with all due respect, I don't think it's a good idea to tell people visiting this board how NOT to lower their cholesterol... especially when this was the implicit question. Or at least, I wouldn't want my own words to force any doctor's hand in prescribing or re-prescribing a statin, with the overpowering *demand* to take them. We have to look realistically at the overall picture of the current climate of today's health care system. I have been through the maze, and realize the bleak system. Yet, a doctor will be less likely to prescribe statins if he or she sees his patients doing the very things recommended in my post. Just as there has been an overemphasis on cholesterol levels, it's also as important not to 'underemphasize' them either... but to moderate them instead.

BTW, there are many more benefits to niacin than just raising LDL, which is super important in my mind. I think we would both agree that maintaining higher levels of nonoxidized LDL is most important. But niacin also has the ability to elevate natural levels of HGH in the human body, especially significant in absence of lipids. Elevating levels of HGH can not only help lower total cholesterol, in its own right, but help to increase memory, bone density, muscle mass, and decrease body fat. This would be an especially beneficial recommendation to anyone past middle age, with declining levels of hormones. I would recommend the book by Dr. Ronald Klatz, "Grow Young With HGH" in which he also dispenses natural ways to elevate HGH levels.

Also, a good doctor will recommend a liver enzyme test to ANYONE using statins or niacin therapy. After having been tested, my doctor also found my mom to have perfect homocysteine levels. Although, most general practitioners will also (should also) recommend a multivitamin, which will contain the RDA to lower homocysteine. Just to make certain, anyone using niacin should also be sure to take: Folic Acid, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12, and Vitamin C supplementation. Especially important advice for anyone who smokes cigarettes (like my mom) or even drinks coffee, of which both can show a *far higher* more immediate incidence of elevated homocysteine.

Butter is also not bad in moderation. Just a little dab can help greatly lower the glycemic response to high carbohydrates, for instance baked potatoes. There's actually a very corollary relationship between saturated fat and carbohydrates, or fats and the absorption of certain vitamins and minerals. I would *definitely* recommend butter over margarine, especially the hydrogenated stick version. Yet, people can get those very same vitamins and nutrients of butter from whole milk (and meats and vegetables,) and our diets are already so rich in saturated fats. And butter is simply pure saturated fats, unlike some foods containing unsaturated fats masquerading as saturated ones. For instance, if I remember correctly, only something like 11% of olive oil's saturated fats is actually saturated. For this reason, I would also choose olive oil over butter. In fact, I would recommend everyone chart their diets: especially saturated fat, and cholesterol intake for one week. You'd be *shocked* by the amounts already existing in our diets.

However, what canola also offers is a super high amount of Omega 3, absent from many people's diets.... and one of the best Omega 3 to 6 ratios, of almost any cooking oil. Probably the most *essential* oil in our diets is polyunsaturated linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acids, a claim that cannot be made nearly as well by saturated or monounsaturated. I might even have trouble recommending fish oil to increase Omega 3's in our diet, simply due to the high amount of mercury, PCB's, and other contaminants. And while pharmaceutical grade fish oil (molecularly distilled and free from metals) might be 3-5 times the cost of regular fish oil, at least canola oil is cheap, readily available, and within most people's budgets. Although the benefits of relatively unfiltered fish oil still far outweigh the risks, in my mind.

BTW, contrary to that 2000 article you cited written by Mary Enig, she had only two years later recanted many of her negative claims on Canola. She toned down her language to a much less impactful, less scientific, and far more anecdotal, "We have had reports of allergies to canola, and internet articles describe a variety of symptoms -- tremors, shaking, palsy, lack of coordination, slurred speech, memory problems, blurred vision, problems with urination, numbness and tingling in the extremities, and heart arrhythmias -- that cleared up on discontinuance of canola. None of this has been reported in the medical journals, however." I can only imagine what Mary thinks of Canola in 2006. Of course, let's make a fine distinction between refined cold pressed Canola (rapeseed) oil and high-heat pressed supermarket variety. Don't get me wrong, I respect Dr. Enig's opinion, especially on trans-fats; I just don't appreciate her politicization of nutrition, and food science in general.

I also apologize for the length of my post.

[adec]

Oh, my sentence about niacin should have read "BTW, there are many more benefits to niacin than just raising *HDL*, which is super important in my mind. I think we would both agree that maintaining *lower* levels of *oxidized* LDL is most important." My only excuse is it was early, and it's difficult typing in these tiny little boxes. Unfortunately, the editing function has been disabled.

[Kathy]

Type it in the note pad and then cut and paste.
Kathy

[sos_group_owner]

Re: For me, with all due respect, I don't think it's a good idea to tell people visiting this board how NOT to lower their cholesterol... especially when this was the implicit question. Or at least, I wouldn't want my own words to force any doctor's hand in prescribing or re-prescribing a statin, with the overpowering *demand* to take them.

Hi 'adec',

Not sure how you get that from my comments on niacin's caveat of elevated Hcy and benefits of saturated fat... I've read several posts from members in my group and another statin group taking therapeutic doses of niacin... all their numbers are "perfect", except homocysteine which is anywhere from 16 to 20... and that is supplementing with high doses of B's to counteract the niacin.

Although most labs say that <11 (and even as high as 15 micromoles per liter of blood) is a healthy level for homocysteine (Hcy), there is no safe "normal range" for (toxic) Hcy. Optimal Hcy levels should be 6.2 or less. For each 3-unit increase above 6.3, there is a 35% increased risk for myocardial-infarction (heart-attack). (American Journal of Epidemiology, 1996, 143[9]:845-59) Epidemiological data reveal that Hcy levels above 6.3 cause a steep, progressive risk of heart attack. (American Heart Association's journal Circulation, Nov. 15, 1995, 2825-30)

In addition to folic acid, B6 and B12, some might also need TMG (trimethylglycine), P-5-P (pyridoxyl-5-phosphate), zinc, inositol and/or choline to control Hcy.

Lowering cholesterol does not ensure heart health. At best it manipulates the levels without correcting the underlying problem. Over 50% of people with normal or below normal levels of cholesterol have heart attacks... But I do "agree that maintaining *lower* levels of *oxidized* LDL is most important."

Excerpt from an article by Dr Malcolm Kendrick: LDL (Oxidised LDL)

" This is a complex pathway. When platelets start to stick together, they release free radicals. "Free radicals" oxidise LDL. Oxidised LDL is a powerful blood clotting factor. LDL is also incorporated into the blood clot as it forms, and provides a 'lipid' surface (along with VLDL) for the construction of fibrin. Fibrin is the hugely strong protein strand that binds a clot together and makes it 'tough.' "

Things that create "free radicals" and oxidized LDL... Smoking, high blood sugar levels (diabetes), stress... Risk factors that damage the "endothelium" include elevated levels of homocysteine, blood sugar, insulin, cortisol (stress hormones), triglycerides, smoking and deficiency in some vitamins, such as C and the B's.

When you get a chance, read the complete article titled, "Is Heart Disease All Due to Blood Clots?"
[http://www.thincs.org/Malcolm.htm#clots]

Elevated triglycerides are primarily caused by a high carb diet, especially from the white foods: sugar (biggest offender), flour, potato, rice, bread. Avoiding these foods also helps to stabilize blood sugar levels. My husband's triglyceride levels were slightly elevated until CABG, low fat - low cholesterol diet and statins. Within a short period of time his slightly elevated triglycerides soared to 600. His slightly low HDL also declined. The remedy was to change Zocor to Lipitor, first 10mg then 20mg. After 8 years, his cholesterol levels were more 'in-line' BUT, he now experienced TGA (transient global amnesia), short term memory loss, muscle atrophy, constant pain in his neck and shoulders, visual disturbances, just to name a few. A high carb diet caused the high trigs (especially sugar), a fat restricted diet caused even lower HDL levels and statins caused his long list of adverse effects. Post 2+years off statins, he still experiences some mental confusion, but no more TGA. His muscles take forever to heal when injured.

I still maintain that those with low HDL levels can improve not only their levels but also derive health benefits from both virgin coconut oil and (organic) butter. Regular exercise can also improve HDL levels.

Re: Yet, a doctor will be less likely to prescribe statins if he or she sees his patients doing the very things recommended in my post.

I'm sorry but I'm tired of jumping through hoops to make my doctor (or my husband's doctors) happy. I've been through the maze too and witnessed a very healthy energetic husband decline before my eyes as a result of our "medical system" and their "Misguided War on Cholesterol".

Fran