Is too much lipitor bad?

[dragynmyrlin]

My pharmacy gave me the wrong amount of lipitor - 40mg instead of 10 for 3+ months. They were very apologetic and gave me this last dose for free. I had already had a liver scan because bloodwork showed elevated something and that I had non alcoholic fatty liver. Should I be really concerned? I also have diabetes so I understand there is a corelation between lipitor and diabetes - not a good one. Any suggestions/help?

[sos_group_owner]

Hi "dragynmyrlin" & Welcome to the Forum,

Four times more than what your doctor prescribed is not good at all.

Are you experiencing any side effects?
Muscle pain &/or weakness?
Dark urine?
Anything out of the ordinary?

If your liver enzymes are already elevated, you should not be taking any statin drugs.

Please start keeping track of all your blood work, tests and the results. Ask your doctor to explain ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you don't understand.

Statins are routinely prescribed for diabetics... the problem with this rationale is that diabetics are already predisposed to developing peripheral neuropathy, one of the several side effects caused by statins. Primary reason for myopathy, neuropathy and cognitive decline from statins is due to CoQ10 deficiency.

What are your cholesterol levels?
LDL
HDL
Triglycerides

Fran

[dragynmyrlin]

I actually don't have a copy of my levels. Got a new doc a few months ago, and went from having a thyroid problem only with old doc to diabetic, high chol, high bp with new one. Inside of a year between old doc last visit and new doc. Makes me wonder if the old doc missed something. Anyway, never asked for numbers but I will now. I never had bloodwork that showed anything bad until I went to new doc, and she didn't mention any liver problems in original bloodwork. Not until AFTER she prescribed Lipitor and I had been taking it (wrong amount) for a month, then they did cat scan. Have to wait two more months to do again. Had bloodwork last week but haven't heard results yet. My wife is weaning me off the Lipitor. I haven't had any muscle pain but she noticed my urine is dark and has been for a while. Although yesterday I started having excrutiating pain in my hip joint, but figured I hurt it somehow. Will keep an eye on it. I will find out levels and write again. I didn't get the impression they were that high. I had out of control thyroid when I got to new doc but that is better now.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi again "dragynmyrlin",

Glad you mentioned thyroid... One of the most common causes of elevated cholesterol is hypothyroidism. "As many as ten million Americans with high cholesterol levels may not know that their cholesterol is elevated due to undiagnosed thyroid problems."
[http://thyroid.about.com/cs/symptomsproblems/a/cholesterol.htm]

Another issue is that some doctors prescribe statins before they ever think to check the patient's thyroid!

Fran

[OneHeart]

Yes, you can get too much lipitor. My husband had a massive heart failure in November. We have been trying to encourage him to use only Co-Q-10 but he insisted on the lipitor. He was using 80 m. a day. He became weaker and weaker. Finally he was throwing up and I insisted he call the doctor. YES, he had too much. He is using 40m now and I still want that cut.

He has only 25% viable tissue in his heart left and 1 artery. There is no room for any mistakes from now on. I wish I had some help in getting him to a place to include some bone marrow stem cell inplant.

[Ray Holder]

Dear Oneheart

The lipitor is making your husband's heart failure worse, and, unless he has had a heart attack earlier, I believe he should stop it immediately, as heart failure has the shortage of natural Q10 supplies at its root, and muscle damage as a later consequence. Supplementary Q10 is a must for him.

4 years ago, I nearly met my end through what I now believe to have been heart failure caused by simvastatin, which I stopped, but fortunately was led to Q10, which I have been taking ever since, with no heart problems at all except when I miss one of my 3 daily 200mg doses, when angina appears in a few hours.

Your husband is probably on blood pressure tablets, having a weak heart, the filling phase is weakened' giving back pressure, and causing BP to rise. Supplementary Q10 will help improve on this weakness, but in so doing, will normalise BP and the BP tablets will drag it back to a lower figure and he will have to watch out for dizzy feelings and reduce his BP medication accordingly. I take my own blood pressure twice a day, if it rises, I take a little extra Q10 as a one off, I have stopped all my bP tablets now except fot Isosorbide mono, which i find necessary as my BP will rise if I get interested in a TV programme, not a cliff hanger, but one which absorbs my interest. A phone call will give the same effect!!

Dr Peter Langsjoen, the cardiologist and Q10 expert from Tyler, Texas, has said that he sees 2 or 3 new cases of statin induced cardiomyopathy every week in his practice, Q10 usually gives good results.

It is well known, except by doctors, that statins inhibit the supply of Q10. As this is especially necessary to provide energy for the heart, working continuously, any shortage makes the heart unable to access all the energy it needs, with disastrous consequences. Medical people seem to say that heart problems need statins, but they only help. by accident, in blocked artery type cases. In heart failure, they only add to the problem.

Diabetes , if present, may need watching, as for blood pressure, but keeping an eye on sugar levels as well.

Dr Langsjoen papers can be found under his name in publications at [www.thincs.org], I see a large number have now accumulated there, many specifically about cardiomyopathy.

Hoping this helps

Ray

[Biologist]

OneHeart,

I would have your husband read this study and consider printing it out for his doctor.

[http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/87/22/8931?ijkey=e48dc70879b9670382c8ff84a53a4b5ae88e7a25]

(I used the manual download hyperlink.)

BTW, the age of this study (1990) does bother me one bit.

Biologist

PS. Of secondary interest to me was learning of the apparent "delay time" in bumping up serum CoQ10 levels with supplementation -- it is not as "automatic" as I would have thought.

[Ray Holder]

You may like to know that Per Langsjoen, co author of this study and father or Dr Peter Langsjoen, was ostracised for continuing CoQ10 research. The dearth of more studies is undoubtedly linked to the discouragement meted out either by the drug company or its sponsored researchers to anyone working outside the approved area.

Further light on this subject will be found in the Q10 information on [www.campo-research.com/campo/products/bio/part1.html] which sheds more light on the commercial and political backgrounds involved, the patient being the ultimate loser.

Ray

[Biologist]

That was good, Ray.

Learned some things.

Thanks.

Biologist

[roaminghermit]

is anyone taking Q-10 with lipitor and notice any benefit, esp. when hiking up hill. Still have to take subl. nitro when climbing but none needed at rest. 3rd mild attack 12/04, left neck artery 100% blocked 50% still open in right. ejection f still 43% after 4 stents in 3/99's 1st MI. Have tried all the suppls etc., and lipitor seems to be the only thing that has stopped heart attacks. No room for any mistakes esp at 63, trying for 64 this May.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi 'roaminghermit' & Welcome to the Forum,

Which supplements/doses have you tried so far?

Fran

[Ray Holder]

Hi
I need Q10 in large doses permanently. I was given lipitor 18 months ago, after a stroke, and it brought angina on in spite of my large dose of Q10, so in your case, taking no Q10 at all, your poor heart muscle must be well starved of Q10.

I am a bit wary of telling you to stop lipitor, as it has most benefit after a heart attack has occurred, but I would most certainly suggest that you take at least 200 mg of Coenzyme Q10 each day, it will probably improve your ejection fraction, this is its main benefit in heart muscle weakness cases, and will help to stop any more deterioration elsewhere in your body.

Ray

[roaminghermit]

Yes am taking 400 mg 2x am & pm. Never read where lipitor causes angina, at 10mg seemed ok but at 40 had angina while hiking last week and needed 4 subl nitro to get out of mountains. Are you still taking Lipitor? I'm more afraid of a stroke than another heart attack but now feel that Quality is more important than Quantity of days.
felt better taking 10mg but Doc said to get LDL <70 so after reading all these msg.'s I'm thinking of slowly getting off Lipitor. Still chew lots of asp. when the head pain starts but lots of good fish oil seems to help. Plavax is the worst thing I've ever taken and stopped taking it also. So much conflicting info that I just go with whatever makes angina worse then change diet...low fat <10% seems to be best plus mostly plant foods with a good steak once in awhile. Not atkin's diet...had 2nd MI doing that diet.

[OneHeart]

Thank you for all your information. I have convienced Tommy to take the CO-Q-10. I have even gotten his cardiologist to say.. this is as good as lipitor. HOWEVER, it is conviencing my husband that he needs to stop the lipitor. I will just give me a minute. Yes, he is diabetic, high blood pressure. It may not be relevant but, I do not believe he is as diabetic as the doctors indicate. I have taken out most, if not all, red meats now. using whole products.. I have an organic garden I started last year and a year of home canned products. I am determined to have his diet change his health not...meds.. Enough though.. I think medication has it's use and when necessary it is a great value to many who can not make life style changes. It is up to us.. YOU and ME to make the shift back to natural products and good health..not the pharmacy.. THANKS from the bottem of my heart...AwakenedOneHeart.. aka.. OneHeart

[OneHeart]

I am using alternative methods of healing as well as CoQ10. He is using 300 mg a day and I have cut back to 1/2 the lipitor. He has about 35% viabiality heart muscle now and that is an improvement from 25% when we left the hospital. He is also doing about 3 to 5 minutes of walking on a treadmill plus lifting 2 lb weights for a few minutes. His muscle mass has reduced about 10% over the entire body. His arms, legs, and buttox show some withering as well as his left foot. I do massage and exercises nightly on the left foot and ankle. Lots of blood loss and lack of good blood flow has made it dark at times. Again.. I am printing this information for him to read and make a choice. In the end it is really up to him to decide what is best for him.( YES! I know, I will not give up that easily)

[Ray Holder]

Hi
Muscle loss is a sure sign that the statin has reduced his carnitine supply, his CK figure will probably be at least a little high. Supplementary Lcarnitine will be needed, not acetyl carnitine in this situation. This amount of deficiency will probably mean that some of his angina will possibly be from this cause. Carnitine is needed for fat to be used for energy production, the heart gets 60% of its energy from fat, so this will be adding to his problems.

Take Lcarnitine starting with about 500 mg a day and work up with a little more after 3 days, first dose on rising in the morning. It took several weeks for my muscles to return to near normal size, my arms have not improved very much at all. you will find several posts by myself and Darrell under Muscle pain and statins giving more information.

Ray

[AnneW]

To roaminghermit: re lipitor causing angina. When my dosage was increased from 10mg to 20mg I started to get angina on a regular basis with minimal physical exertion. I never made the connection until I stopped taking the lipitor and have not had angina since. I had forgotten all about it until I read your post.
AnneW

[roaminghermit]

Thanks Anne
Yes its seems like going to 40 from 10mg has made angina worse. 3rd week at 40mg and still eating the same so am cutting the 40 into 4 pcs and see what happens.
Last test TC 120 LDL 90 HDL 35 and TRIG 93 ...this was with 10 mg lipitor & all the articles I've read say <150 is best but never how low TC can go. My Cardio Doc says to just look at the LDL and get it under <70, which seems too hard to do & its no fun anymore....LOL

[sos_group_owner]

Hi 'roaminghermit',

Re: TC 120 LDL 90 HDL 35 and TRIG 93

TRIG 93 divided by 5 = 18.6 + LDL 90 + HDL 35 ='s TC 143.6
Maybe the lab didn't calculate correctly?
TC 144 is OK but your HDL is a bit too low.

Fran

[roaminghermit]

just remembed this forum again...LOL
My last test Feb has HDL up to 46, a new high, total is 258, LDL 190,
Have stopped all drugs Oct 08 and think will never take any again. So nice to be able to hike again with no nitro, but still can't jog or run.