Increasing sensitivity to CO Q-10?

[BSGfan]

Hello. Let's start with a little background. After several years of taking Lopid and Zocor I found they were aggravating arithritic back cramps, headaches, and ocular migraines, all of which dramatically reduced once I stopped taking the medication over the summer of 2006.

In July 06 I had a Lopid-Mevacor-Niacin reaction which left me with a constant burning, itching, aching sensation along the right side of my cheek and jaw, with a good deal of day to day variability, which persists to this day.

In July 07 I severely sprained my jaw chewing some tough food. My symptoms worsened dramatically, and I began to notice that certain medications and foods, such as garlic, turmeric, cinnamon, and others would aggravate my facial discomfort.

In the autumn of 07 I began to supplement with coenzyme q-10 in the 30 to 240 mg range, average daily dose between 130 and 180 mg. Most lengthy period of supplementation was for about 14 weeks, four times a week, ending in January 08. I found it quite helpful in suppressing my facial discomfort, headaches, and ocular migraines. Side effects included some G.I. problems, and some increased aches and pains in my forearms and maybe some increased cramping in my forelegs...I have carpal tunnel syndrome, and I have some nerve compression issues in my lower limbs due to foot malformations and the use of braces and prosthetics. Some of these cramps appeared to come and go during my period of supplementation. Also benificial with facial and forearm discomfort: magnesium, 75 mg daily.

December 07 Moderately sprained back in auto accident.

January 08 through March 08 Noted finger and facial twitches, sciatica style symptoms down one leg, tingling sensations in neck, shoulders, lumbar spine. Neurologist said probably delayed reaction to trauma of auto accident. Fearful that the coenyzme q-10 was somehow aggravating my symptoms, suspended supplementation in January 08. Leg pains, twitches, and tingling sensations gradually subsided. On the plus side, Neurologist said the reduced headaches and ocular migraines post q-10 might very well be permanent, and they have, in fact, remained more low key and infrequent.

Late March 08 Tossed my back out so agonizingly wound up in E.R. Given injections of Toradol and Robaxin, told to follow up with oral Robaxin or Flexeril, and Ibuprofin. Noted medications aggravated the discomfort in my cheeks somewhat, particularly on the left side, which I had rarely experienced before.

April 08 Noted the new uncomfortable "stretched out" feeling in my left cheek was persisting, and, in fact, persists to this day, although it is greatly variable. Some days I am scarcely aware of it at all. Also, noted the cramping in one forearm was markedly worse for many weeks. One physician suggested it might be due to a mild amount of nerve damage from the Toradol/Ibuprofin interaction.

June 08 MRI on back reveals multifactorial osteoarithritis with mild disc bulges and herniations around L3, L4, L5. Very mild tingling sensation persisting at base of spine. Stretching exercises and acupuncture help considerably.

June through October 08 Noted some of my facial and forearm cramping symptoms would subside somewhat when I occasionally drank sports drinks such as Fuze, which are fortified with L-Carnitine. Additional arm exercises, initially quite uncomfortable, now seeming to give some benefit.

October 19. 2008 With my forearm and facial discomfort persisting, decided to again try coenzyme q-10 supplementation, this time at lower levels. Consumed approximately half the contents of a 90 mg powdered Q-10 capsule.
Forearm cramps increased dramatically, as well as cramps in one leg.
The following day cramps in arm subsided, leg cramps subsided to a lesser degree. Also found discomfort in left cheek got much worse, and remains at the heightened level. Told physician I would supplement with Q-10 only rarely, as I did not permanently want to worsen the neuropathic/nerve compression style discomfort in my feet--I need to be able to walk in reasonable comfort! Physician told me the Q-10 "possibly aggravating" my symptoms as it "gets into the muscles and nerves." Physician agreed suspending use or using only sparingly probably for the best.

Okay, enough with the synopsis. Any body else have similar reactions? Any one else reporting initial exacerbation of muscle cramps with supplementation? Any one else finding they are evidently becoming more sensitive to Q-10 over time?

[Darrell]

In the last 12+ months I've been taking about 400 mg of Q10 per day. Before that I took varying amounts -- sometimes more, sometimes less. I have not shared your experience, thank goodness. Have you tried different sources of Q10? Is it possible that your Q10 has been overheated or frozen or contaminated at some point?

[cjbrooksjc]

Bsgfan: No problems with CoQ10, but, as Darrell suggests, you may try another batch (maybe the QGel formula from EPIC4HEALTH). Q10 is very sensitive to heat exposure.

Brooks

[SusieO]

I had problems with over the counter brands of CoQ10, but the brand my wellness doc gets for me works great. I posted the brand in a reply to a post of yours a long time ago (Xymogen brand).

You may want to try a chiropractor for your problems - my wellness doctor is a chiro and he has worked wonders for me. Do you take the other supplements that most of us take - if not try taking those too.

[sylviak]

Does anybody have any experience with NSI ubiquinol? I noticed that I get shortness of breath & abdominal cramps about an hour after I take this brand?

[sylviak]

I read that about three weeks of daily dosing are necessary to reach maximum blood concentrations of CoQ10 ( 300 mg a day, in general) and then one can lower the dose thereafter to 150 mg. Can anyone shed light on this as I have problems with the COQH I am taking. Until I receive the Active Gel (recommended by Brooks and the Consumer Lab),I am stuck with this NSI COQH.

[Ray Holder]

sylviak
The big danger from Q10 use is to be taking it at the same time as some form of stomach acid reducing drug. If one's stomach is too alkaline, Q10 can make a form of yeast grow within it, a very undesirable effect. Others have noticed this problem on this site. This is the only real danger of Q10, and then it is not the Q10, but the unnatural state of the stomach.
If you have acid reflux, try to control it by taking special care in swallowing your food and drink, not too fast so that it doesn't easily rise back up in your throat. Otherwise you will have to choose, whether you need Q10 or anti acid drugs the more.

I looked up NSI Q10, I hope you have just Q10 and not one of the so called improved mixtures, I use only capsules that contain Kaneka brand basic ingredient.

Ray

[sylviak]

Hi Ray,

I am not taking any anti-acid at all. I have not taken the anti- acid since May 1 and ever since, I am chewing almond , drinking freshly made carrot and celery juice and drinking yoghurt containing active lactobacillus.
So it is definitely not the anti-acid. (Besides, I only took the anti-acid for 2 weeks in April and quit since I found out it will inhibit the absorption of vitamin B and encourage the growth of yeast.)

I am using the NSI Ubiquinol CoQH Featuring Kaneka QHâ„¢ -- 100 mg - 60 Softgels. I get stomach cramps after I take this and a feeeling like a belt tightened under by breast bone. Then I start having difficulty breathing. To get some relief, I lie sideways or drink the freshly made celery juice.

[sylviak]

Hi Ray,

You mentioned that "the big danger from Q10 use is to be taking it at the same time as some form of stomach acid reducing drug." This scientific finding supports this.
*http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WN2-456JR3V-17&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c5f79c471010824294988e11044ba850

BTW, which carnitine do you recommend for those with muscle waste? Has anyone tried Propionyl L-Carnitine ?

Thanks.

[Ray Holder]

Hi sylviak

Please see
*http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/JOM5.html, which gives a warning about using Q10 on an alkali stomach.
I have always used Lcarnitine as statin damage occurred at the same time as post polio syndrome, and this form is the one used for that problem, no other sort works for me or other post polios.
*http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/carnitine/car_tekst.htm gfives a lot of info on carnitine, statin muscle pain seems to respond to Acetyl carnitine, but the secodary, sweeping up feature, of carnitine is needed there. Dr Sinatra recommends proprionyl L carnitine for heart problems, and while I have that problem, I use 15 grams of carnitine daily, and the cost would be prohibitive, and it comes in capsule form, rather a lot of capsules to take in a day, The odd one taken with my regular powder form seem not to have any effect. I believe brooks takes it.

Ray

[cjbrooksjc]

I take a combination ALC from Nutraceutical Sciences Institute (*NSI.COM)

ALC HCI @ 700 Mg per cap
ALC Arginate @ 500 Mg per cap

I take approx 5 combination caps per day.

I have taken PLP in the past, but I don't remember any significant improvement. The fact that I am not taking it still is an indicator of its observed efficacy, but we all seem to react differently; trying it can't hurt.

Brooks

[sylviak]

Thank you for the information. It won't hurt to try and I will let you know the outcome. I have an appointment next week with the clinic recommended by Dr. Ravnskov and I was told that this clinic specialises in treating statin victims. They offer a complete check up, including the detection of free radicals (etc). The clinic is run by certified licensed doctors but my private insurance and the national health insurance refuse to cover this ( because it is an alternative medicine). I'll find a legal loophole so my private insurance will cover this as the cost is quite prohibitive. It's ironic that the private insurance are willing to pay for my nerve damage test which is triple in cost. The word alternative therapy scares them here!
I've had all kinds of test -to check my kidney , liver and heart . So far , I have no damage, but the Creatine Test found I have a minor muscle damage. ( only from 6 days of 40 mg Zocor!) If you have any questions that are relevant to statin victims and which this forum has not yet addressed (or if they have been addressed are still vague) and I'll have a go with the doctor.

[sylviak]

I've been to a new GP today who has treated statin victims.
She recommended a suplement of juice +. Clinical studies found that Juice Plus+ helps maintain a healthy immune system and DNA integrity,reduces oxidative stress, and positively impacts several key indicators of cardiovascular wellness.
The capsules are available in the US, Canada, UK, Germany etc.
The website:*https://www.juiceplus.com/nsa/content/Welcome.soa

[sylviak]

sceptical studies on Juice plus
*http://www.mlmwatch.org/04C/NSA/crf.html
*http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEducation/QA/juiceplus.html

[Allen1]

Thanks for bringing that to our attention sylviak,

sometimes if we believe in a product strongly enough, we can always think that any improvement that occasionally pops up, has got to be down to taking brand x,y or z. It certainly looks like the same situation with Juice Plus, so eating the right foods and taking appropriate vitamins if needed would in fact be the proper way to go to.

In the news here in the UK there was a report on TV about Organically grown food versus Industrial/Farmed food, it said that there was virtually no nutritional difference between them. I think the difference would be that one lot is free from chemicals such as pesticides while the other has been treated with them and probably had chemically enhanced fertilizer used to boost the yield of the crop. How many of those chemicals will stay in a persons body, or will they cause damage to it, IS the question that should have been asked (if it was then I missed that part).

I notice that the Benicol adverts over here are getting a bit braver again "Lets Talk about Cholesterol), I could really loose it if I ever saw Gloria Hunniford in real life, what a truly stupid woman she must be to promote such a war against cholesterol and act the way she does. :evil:

All the best,
Allen :-)