Helping People Get Off Statins

[Allen1]

Hi there Lars,

if I recall correctly, vitamin E competes with CoQ10 for receptors for transporting to where it is needed so realistically they should be take at separate times to gain the benefit. I probably have the method wrong but a quick search of some of the older posts show things like this and there is probably more on the subject that are better examples :-

http://www.spacedoc.net/board/viewtopic ... 664a2295ff

When I was doing that exercise course after the op I mentioned, I was 48 or 49, I am 54 now. It is only recently that I don't get overtaken by people more than 20 years older than myself when I'm out shopping and that is when I have a good day Whatever they had for breakfast is what I need

I know what you mean about the slender people being more capable of enduring work outs but that may only be because we have only seen the ones that were fit in the first place and not those who are sick and incapable. Unfortunately from being inactive for various reasons and then the statin induced problems, I am not one of the slender folk any more (teletubbies spring to mind)

All the best,
Allen

[pmgamer18]

Taking about supplements one of the men at my forum posted to me about trying PQQ.
http://search.store.yahoo.net/vitanet/c ... Q&x=13&y=7
I am on so many supplements just taking 400mgs of ubiquinon 3x's a day is costing me over $200 / month.
Anyone hear about PQQ it is said you help if you can do heavy exercising.
Phil

[lars999]

Hello Allen!!

I am sure the active and physically capable old folks in gyms and physical fitness centers are a select group. As I chat with them I often find that they are there because of some serious medical crisis years or decades ago, or present medical conditions like diabetes, cardiovascular issues, etc. Few of them are or were physical fitness fanatics -- more like folks determined to stay out of wheelchairs and hospitals and graveyards, and be able to do what they please in the meantime. Few appear to have ever taken statin drugs.

I got into working out because my work kept me at desks, computer terminals, instrument or equipment controls, etc. Only way I could be in suitable physical condition to go back to mountains a few times each year was via a regular physical fitness program. This hit its peak in my 50s when I would spend several weeks each year back in mountain wilderness areas on horseback and with a small pack string. I did this with my then 30 something daughter, a certified wilderness ranger and horse packer. Three weeks of that and I was ready for a few weeks of rest and recuperation! 55 is definitely NOT 35!!

Thanks for the tip about vitamin E and CoQ10!

Phil,

I have never heard of that PQQ suppliment. However, until my Lipitor mess, I hardly paid any attention to suppliments. Now I am focused on suppliments that augment biochemicals that my body appears no longer to produce in adequate amounts. Presently, omega 3 rich fish oil is the sole exception. I am also trying to get off ALL medications, with only glaukoma eye drops and Nexium remaining.

Regards,
Lars

[lars999]

Allen,

Just read quickly through reference link you provided
http://www.spacedoc.net/board/viewtopic.php?p=4930&sid=e1a8d2dcbcb9585477e75e664a2295ff
and found it well worth reading. I too recommend it to anyone that has not already read it.

Thanks!!
Lars

[Allen1]

Hi there Lars,

there is a lot of really good information and helpful posts to be found here, most of them are buried under even more posts and become harder to find. Its not just the information that helps, its also being able to talk to others about things and finding out that you are not alone, that in itself has probably helped more people than anything else. There is also the times where we have relaxed enough to go way off topic and had a bit of humour to lighten things up, now that's priceless.

I believe you are right about the older age group going to fitness centers mainly for health reasons or to keep themselves mobile, fit and out of hospitals. I am still amazed though at how lively for want of a better word, they were compared to a young bloke like myself who cycled to work every day for years, there was me puffing and panting and they just took the same exercising in their stride

The horseback riding sounds great but I can imagine that there would be aches from places you never knew existed after a short time in the saddle, who would have thought that in a few years time you could get the same sensations without the horse riding, good old statins if only we knew what we were letting ourselves get into.

@Phil,

I had never heard of the PQQ supplement either but there is a lot of info on Google under the search words "PQQ suppliment"

[lars999]

Hello Allen!

The discussion on sites like this is really valuable!! So are the off topic excursions. Having folks to point out the gems buried in long threads is close to priceless. I am sure I read them all early on, equally sure I will never remember them when they would be valuable. I big thanks to everyone that points us newbies to them.

Being on a big "mountain" horse for 8-10 hours a day does indeed bring out some distinct pains. The ones that are worse for me are in the knees -- sitting on those big barrel-shaped critters is something my knees are not at all suited for, at least not for more than a few hours. Butts (yours) can take a beating too, especially on "rapid" trips into and out of back country. Few of those big brute horses are gaited -- just a fast walk, a brutal butt-tenderizing trot and a demanding gallop. But, those horses are at home in the mountains -- way more reliable than "town" horses that get crazy when a grouse flushes or they see something that scares them .. not fun on a steep, narrow mountain trail.

But it was really satisfying to do!!
lars

[Allen1]

Hi there Lars,

I must admit that I have never tried horse riding, there are several stables nearby but I think they are for the horse owners use only. To top that off I have seen a horse get spooked and I would hate to be on one if something like that happened especially when there are cars and lorries around. From what you mention it is also a great experience but the downside is the added knowledge that you are guaranteed to be sore at the end of it.

I like the idea of the relationship of rider and horse but some of those things are massive, and being perched on top of one and trying to control it would be a bit scary for me on flat ground never mind mountain trails :lol:

After the problems that statins have caused, I would think that even a few minutes on a horse would be extremely uncomfortable and painful now, but you never know, it may also assist in massaging out some of the toxins trapped in muscle tissues and the likes but probably not.

[lars999]

Hello Allen!

There are horses and horses and horses -- some wonderful and reliable, some not. I only really have somewhat extensive experience with two groups of horses.

One group is owned by a family that has been breeding horses for taking dudes into the mountains for over 70 years and three generations of that family. Those are the most consistantly considerate (of the rider) horses I have ever ridden, simply because they were carefully selected for that behavior. IF a young horse does not meet that familie's standard, the horse is sold. These horses sell quickly and for good money. About the only consideration these horses will not give the rider is low branches -- seems that if their ears clear the branch, that is end of their concern -- rider beware. These horses would sell for $10K or more and have a service lifetime of well over 30 years. I have never ridden more reliable or considerate horses. These horses are also very fast walkers in mountains, even capable of jogging or galloping on the better mountain trails for hours -- with few riders can do. One can relax and ride these horses, with few concerns. These are big horses with amazing stamina, even to ages in mid 30s.

The second group is far inferior in performance and price. Market value is more like $1500-$2500. They are much slower and far less reliable. Every one has one nasty quirk that rider must constantly watchout for. No relaxing on these horses. That makes riding a "full attention activity", an exhausting activity when done all day, every day. A one-day trip on the previously described horses is a two-day trip on these.

And, of course, there are far worse horses, often called "broomtails". They can be downright nasty.

Lars

[Allen1]

Hi there Lars,

I would have to say that most of the horses you would find in my neck of the woods are in the second group and others verging on the third. There are public footpaths that either go through or around the fields where the horses graze not far from where I live, fortunately the horses tend to keep their distance from people they don't recognise, mind you its amazing how pleased and placid they seem to get when the folk who groom or ride them appear. I have only ever seen one horse that scared me when out walking, it was many years ago. That horse was in a fenced off field adjacent to the footpath and it would charge at you with menace in its eyes, it ran so fast that it couldn't stop and actually banged into the fence. Needless to say I stopped going that way, I don't know what happened to that horse but if it ever got out, I think someone would have been killed.

Anyhow, its been snowing here for the last couple of days and as usual everything comes to a virtual stop on the roads, cars losing traction and sliding or unable to stop etc. some people have take 2 to 4 hours to complete a 20 minute journey to or from work. This seems to happen every year in the UK, you would have thought by now that people would have been prepared for such occasions with little clues like the time of year, its getting very cold and all the practice they have had from previous years of the same problems

All the best,
Allen

[pops]

Lars

In my opine, you're correct on all counts. Of course the medical experts would tell us we're just experiencing normal aging. I appeared to have aged ten years in my first three weeks on lovastatin, which I find unlikely to have been caused by chance.

I do seem to be returning to some of my former self, albeit slowly. It's been almost 8 months since I stopped lovastatin. I took them 33 days. Stopped April 13, 2010.

Today, for the first time, I was able to perform work at a level I had before. Prior to taking statins, my quads were powerful. After taking statins, I could barely stand up. The change, once more, happened in three weeks.

Any expert who claims that was coincidental and statins played no role is drinking the Koolaid.

I digress.

I think at least some of the damage done by statins is that lowering cholesterol reduces the cells' ability to heal. Cholesterol is alleged to be part of the healing process when cells are injured, such as when one works out.

Some of the damage is probably done by a deficiency of COQ10.
And perhaps some of it by pathways not well understood.

The point is that many people do heal eventually, especially with nutritional support. Or, at least partially heal.

Added to the list of things that *might* help, is something I recently read:
b complex and vitamin c. I haven't tried it yet.

Personally, I've gotten help from COQ10. Not a cure, but somewhat of an improvement.

I also continue to exercise. I believe that may be important. Circulation has got to be vital to returning cells to health, since blood carries what cures us.

Again, I'm not a professional and cannot prescribe. Except that I prescribe hope for everyone, including myself.

"Keep on truckin'," as they say.

pOps

P.S. I used to think you could tell a politician was lying when his lips were moving. I now apply that adage to doctors as well. Mine said side effects from statins are rare. Of 22 people I know who've taken statins, 10 quit because of side effects. How rare is that?

[pmgamer18]

Hi Pops you give me hope dam it's good to hear your doing better in 8 months. I have not been able to stand up or walk without a walker. I am 66 was on Statin Drugs 2 yrs.

I told my Dr.'s from dayone I was having bad pain from them but they would not listen to me until I could not stand up or walk.

Now they know all about how to treat me they put me on the following with pain pills. I had to switch my pain pills the FDA pulled what I was taking off the market Darvocet. I got spacedoc.com news letter about pain relief and started on Ultrm last monday Dr. started me on 50 mgs / day this lasted a day I had to call him.

What the Hel* are they thinking putting me on this low dose when my pain level is a 10. I had to call him 3 times finely I am doing better taking 4 pills a day.

Still my Dr.'s keep pushing me to walk 30 min.'s a day and to do light exercise. Problem with this is when I feel better and try this it sets me back. I am going to try walking in water Mon.

This link to the news lettle helped me to under stand why walking and exercise sets me back.
http://www.spacedoc.net/pain_relief_vit ... in_damaged

Here is a list of all my meds and supplements.
Phil
--------------------------------------------------

PHILIP’S MED’S
• Anastrozole (Arimidex) .25 mg./day.
• Aspirin 81 mg 2x’s/day.
• Alprazolam(Xanax) .25 mg. 3x’s/day.
• Atenolol 25 mg. 1x/day morning for heart beta-blocker.
• Triamterene/HCTZ 37.5/25 mgs. Every other day.
• Testosterone .5 ml. or 100 mgs shot every 3 days.
• Novarel HCG 250 IU’s shot the 1 day each before next Testosterone shot.
• Celebrex 200 mgs. 2x/day morning and dinner.
• Hydrocortisone (Cortef) 30 mgs. total 10 mgs morning, 5mgs at 9am, 5 mgs at 1pm, 5 mgs at 6pm and 5mgs at bedtime.
• Florinef .1 mgs. 1x’s/day with ½ tsp. of Sea Salt added to water 27oz 3 to 4x’s/day.
• Cialis 5 mgs/ day for heart and BP.
• Alprazolam (Cytomel) 5mcgs 2x’s /day.
• Concentra 18 mgs 1x’s /day.
• Synthroid generic 150 mcgs./day.
• Potassium Chloride 20 mgs every other day.
• Ferrous Fumarate Iron pills 324 mgs 1x/day.
• Life-Flo 15 mgs. Pregnenolone Cream.
• Tylenol Arthritis Pain 1 tablets 2x’s/day.
• Ultram 50mgs 4x’s/day.

Supplements

• TMG 750mg 1pm and 11pm 2 pills a day.
• Solary Super Bio C 2 x’s/day 1000 mgs. Total.
• l-Arginine and l-Orthinine 100 Capsules, 750 mg, Twinlab 1 at bedtime.
• NOW brand ZMA 800mgs 3 at bedtime.
• Copper 2mgs 1 at noon.
• Dr. Cranton's PrimeNutrients 3/day.
• Biotics Bio-D-Mulsion Forte Vit. D 2000 IU's per drop I am doing 10 drops a day.
• Iodoral Iodine 1 tab / day 12.5 mgs.
• I went with NOW brand for the following supplements do to a high levels on a Homocysteine Cardiovascular and below normal level of Folate RBC labs.
• NAC N-Acetyl Cysteine, Selenium, Molybdenum - 600 mg.
• B-12 (Brain) Methylcobalamin - 5000 mcg lozenges. 3x’s/week.
• Coenzyme B Complex.
• P-5-P (Coenzyme B6) 50 mg.
• I am taking 800 mcg. Folacal for low Folate RBC.
• BioCitrate Selenium - 200 mcg 1x’s / day morning.
I was put on the following by my Dr.'s to treat my pain from Statin damage.
• Ubiquinol Capliques Featuring Kaneka's Qh (400mgs) 3x’s/day mercola.com.
• Lecithin 1200 mgs 3 caps 2x’s/day.
• Acetyl-L Carnitine 500 mg 3x’s/day.
• Alpha Lipoic Acid 250 mg/day.
• Krill Oil capliques 1,000 mgs. 2 with food morning mercola.com.

[lars999]

GADS Phil!! You have become a human biochemical disposal unit! :shock:

Somehow I missed that newsletter from SpaceDoc. Thanks for posting link. I do have personal experience with walking NOT BEING a good thing to do, however, that had to do with factors preceeding my taking Lipitor by over a decade. This was correctly diagnosed and a fix provided by an alert PT -- unfortunately, everythings else she provided was pretty much useless.

Lately I have come to recognize that chronic lower back pain and suseptability to debilitating muscle spazms was added by Lipitor and are extensively gone now.

At moment, I am heading in exactly opposite direction as regards medications. I am trying to get rid of final two, Nexium and Travatan Z (a glaukoma eye drop). My supplement list for statin damage is very similar to yours.

Lars

[pmgamer18]

Yes it's a big list but I have a lot on my plate. 30 yrs. ago I had a bad head injury and it damaged my Pituitary in my brain. This contorls your how much hormones your body makes. Due to this it's called Hypopituitary I need to take them meds and supplements.

I had to have heart bypass surgery not due to high Chol. levels but from having low hormones for them yrs. I had to 99% blockages going to my heart.

I get so dam mad about this Stain crap after all the things I have been through the last 30 yrs I need this like I need a hole in my head.

Today I was able to get in to my spa on my deck off my bedroom man did that feel good I have it set at 101 deg.'s. Being on the Ultram my pain is much better and I as able to get into and out of the spa with very little help. I did some leg exercises in the spa. I just got out about an hour ago and I still feel good from it.
Phil