Dr. Graveline's Twelve Supplements

[Biologist]

I thought I would add the following. I have probably experienced more "brain fog" recently because I have cut back on testosterone recently. My levels had gotten too high. Having a hormone level too high is not helpful because, generally, the cells are only going to take the amount they need from the blood. If there is an over abundance of a hormone in the blood for a long period of time, the cells simply remove some of their receptors for the hormone molecule from their cell membranes. This way they regulate the amount of hormone they receive. As I have lowered my levels of testosterone over the last few weeks, my cells have been receiving less because they were in a "mode of abundance" with fewer receptors "expressed." Over time, they will display more as it becomes clear to them that blood levels will no longer be as high as they have been. When that occurs, a homeostasis should be reestablished and the need for carbs with each meal should diminish. That's the working theory anyway. So far, so good.

My body temperature regulation has improved. I am now seeing 98.6 during parts of the day (which I had not seen in months), and my morning temperatures have increased. Earlier I was concerned about hypothyroidism, but it appears the major issue was too high levels of testosterone due to lack of adequate clearance. The high testosterone was probably suppressing thyroid hormone or its utilization.

In a case of too little hormone, all cells that use the hormone put out as many receptors as they can but there is simply not enough to go around. There may or may not be a triage arrangement with the various tissues and cells in times of low supply such as there appears to be with deficiencies with some enzymes.

I would not expect adding carbohydrates would completely reverse a lack of energy production in the brain if one is low on appropriate hormones, but it should help.

Getting plenty of cholesterol may be more important for proper brain function for people with "brain fog." Dr. Graveline recently reported on the effects of low levels of cholesterol on neurotransmitters. Taking an aspirin or two may be helpful during bad episodes because it raises brain cholesterol levels -- in fact, this is the hypothesized mechanism for the slight reduction in Alzheimers disease found among people who take aspirin regularly. By some accounts, low cholesterol is the primary suspect in the development of the disease.

Biologist

[epfleger]

I will certainly give this a shot. I am waiting for the results of my hormone levels.

Thanks so much - and I will post my findings.

[SusieO]

My wellness doc has me taking just about every supplement in Doc's post and a few others (some are combined forms of vitamins/minerals). I have posted time and again that each of us has to find our own special formulation that will help us - not cure us, but help us - that no two people will be able to take the exact same amounts.

I am tested 4 times a year for my hormone levels doing a saliva test, I am tested 2 times a year for iodine levels by doing a 24 hr urine collection, I did a magnensium blood test too.

Besides all of this I see my wellness doc every 3 weeks and continue to do an hour of "therapy" with him in various forms. He has a machine called SpectraVision that can get down deep in our cells and detect many things that seem to be right out of a science fiction movie. After each session I also do a detox foot bath for 12 to 30 minutes to rid toxins from my body. My supplements run about $400 a month and no insurance will cover it...but to me it is worth every penny because I can now walk 5.5 miles a day and do many other things that I could not do 2 yrs ago.

I can't ride for a long periods of time in a car or on a plane - my legs still get very sore and hurt for days after. I can't carry more than a bag or two of groceries, it is not easy for me to do housework - my legs and arms grow weak easily, but two years ago I could not do any of this so now that I am able to do things I am very thankful.

If I take too many of a supplement the old pain and weakness will return - it is a guessing game as far as how much my body requires and it is always changing. I feel like the problems are lurking in the back and will always be there, but at least I can live my life much better than I was before.

[epfleger]

Hi SusieO:

That's my experience as well. I find I need to titrate myself with various supps, never quite knowing what will or won't work.

I think the most distressing part of all this is how much WORSE I have gotten since quitting lipitor over a year ago. Then, magically, I'll have a stretch of several days feeling fine. This seems to be our fate.

If I may ask Susie, were/are your hormone levels low?

[Biologist]

I thought I would add this too as many of us may take pain medicine (and I had recommended asprine in this thread). They may be particularly bad for mitochondial challenged people. I wish the author had gone into more detail such as whether asprine can cause mitochondrial problems too, or rather just the others. We have long known that acetaminophen was bad news, but maybe ibuprofen should be added to the list? I don't know. Maybe he is just telling us the mechanism for liver problems with acetaminophen. Regardless, I may stick to asprine exclusively.

Page 90 of "Reverse Heart Disears Now" by Stephen T. Sinatra, MD & James C. Roberts, MD, 2007

"Painkillers and Heart Disease

Revelations in 2004 and 2005 that best-selling painkillers such as Vioxx, Celebrex, Aleve, and Bextra increase the risk of heart attacks made big headlines. The news stunned millions of patients relying on these medications. Ongoing news about possible adverse cardiovascular effects from medication makes us very concerned about the widespread of painkillers altogether.

They all, in fact, have side effects, even over-the-counter pharmaceuticals such as acetaminophen (liver-related problems) and nonsteriodal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDs) such as ibuprofen (high blood pressure and weakened kidneys). Prescription NSAIDs are even stronger. Overuse of NSAIDs has ruined the careers and health of several well-known professional athletes. If NSAIDs can harm young people in peak physical shape, thing of what they acan do to you.

Recent research shows that NSAIDs can hamper the mitochondrial production of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the body's basic cellular fuel. In essence, many of these analgesics act like mitochondrial toxins. ATP is vital to the proper function of all cells and particularly to cells fo the heart muscle that pump nonstop. When drugs curtail this energy production, something has to give."

Biologist

[uncle2blade]

Biologist,

I recently started seeing a new M.D. who has put me on testosterone therapy. After much blood work, saliva test, urine analysis it was determined I was a little low in some B vitamins, and my testosterone was a little low.

Could you please tell me what your experience with testosterone has been. I'm afraid of all drugs since my statin experience. Do you feel the benefits out way the potential side effects?

Thanks, Craig

[Biologist]

Hi, Craig.

Busy now but I will try to respond in the next few days. As you posted in some of the previous threads where I discussed TRT, you are way ahead already about knowing what to watch out for. But in short, there is no doubt that I am glad I started it. Decide whether you want to discuss your various levels, or not, online. Here is one question for you though: are you taking HCG as part of your treatment?



Biologist

[uncle2blade]

Biologist,

I'm not sure what HCG is, but I would like to know.

Thanks Craig

[uncle2blade]

Biologist,

I know you do a lot of reading, and you may have read this book I,m going to recommend already, if you haven't please read, THE ULTRAMIND SOLUTION By Mark Hyman, M.D.

Best to you, Craig

[uncle2blade]

Biologist,

I Googled HCG, and now I know what it is, but still not sure I understand it.

Thanks, Craig

[gotts1936]

All the responses on this site are great, but what if your leg muscles, or any muscles, have been damaged. How in the hell can you repair damaged muscles? We know that stains can damage muscles and end up as rhabomyolysis and eventually kill you, but what if your muscles disintergrate but you do not die from rhabomyolysis? Is it possible to rebuild the damaged muscles. Todate, no one, on this site, has addressed this issue. How many of you have damaged muscles and believe just taking supplements will solve the problem and stop the pain?
Gotts

[gotts1936]

Let me add, I have been in pain for three years. I have researched muscles damage and tendon displacement to no avail. I have a left leg that looks like the calf muscle has been displaced, therefore, because it is in the wrong location, it no longer is doing the job it has been designed to do which creates pain. In researtching orthopedics I discovered that muscle transfer is possible, if muscles are not damaged. Any comments?
Gotts

[uncle2blade]

gotts1936,

We are all pioneers in the statin damage field. We are the ones that are going to find solutions for the unknown millions still using these drugs. I know how frustrating it can be. Keep up the good fight, and share your experiences with others. It helps me to know your out there trying to solve this problem we have. I know you will share with me just like I will with you.

I have muscle damage too, I've been to countless doctors, taken hundreds of dollars in supplements, precription medications. and looked on this forum for answers. I just keep going and know that with the help of others on this forum we will find the answers.

This Forum has really saved my life. I have gotten a lot of relief keeping up on what others have done. I,m not cured and may never be. I,ve come a long way back from where I was two years ago. Someday I,d like to say I have recovered from statin damage. Who knows?

You are in my prayers, best to you, Keep posting,

Craig

[gotts1936]

uncle2blade,
Thank you very much for your kind response to my venting. Except for this site and spacedoc there does not appear to be any real info out there concerning the repairing of damaged muscles and returning them to a normal healthy condition. I know I have not been unable to locate any info addressing muscle repair. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Gotts

[Biologist]

Hi, Craig,

Read this:

*http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:YVtZA_sEpqQJ:www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/HCGupdate.doc+john+crisler+hcg&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

This guy is popularly recognized as one of the leaders in the field (the other being Dr. Eugene Shippen -- you should read Shippen's book).

I bet your doctor has you on Androgel, right? Good as a test, but not long term. Too much DHT for one. And expensive. You want to research compounding pharmacies in your area to find a doctor real familiar with TRT/HRT. You can do that by asking pharmacists (at the compounder, for instance) which ones are prescribing HCG for men. Depending on your age, you might wish to try HCG only as a treatment which is a subcutaneous injection. (We may be learning now that the same can be done with T injections at a smaller amount on a daily basis -- which is what I am trying now.) The compounding version of Androgel is cheaper and better individualized.

I am interested in what your tested levels were for total T, free T (or bioavailable T) and estradiol (E2) and what the reference ranges were on all of the tests. It is up to you if you want to post them.

My total T was 115 on a reference range of about 400 to about 1,000 a year after my statin damage! (Now it is where ever I decide for it to be...)

I was an athlete in high school and have always been atypically physically fit (until statins). I am sure my T levels were fine before. I have made a lot of progress in damage repair, but still have a good way to go.

Biologist

[Biologist]

Yes, I will read that book. I was not impressed that Dean Ornish was one of the "supporters" for the author though. (I am not a fan of his work at this point.) But I read some of the reviews and will order it. I will also get Dr. Graveline's new one that is now available. I recently finished several, one being Dr. Uffe Ravnskov's new book and another other being "The Great Cholesterol Con" by Dr. Malcolm Kendrick. Both were excellent in my opinion. I have owned Kendrick's for months but lost the book in an office move! Glad I found it. I wish I had found it sooner. BTW, these guys know each other and regularly communicate. (And also, it's good to see a presence from Dr. Sinatra showing up on this site.)

Jeff Cable is mentioned in Dr. Ravnskov's book ("Fat and Cholesterol are Good for You!") in the Acknowledgements section. Jeff provided linguistic corrections in the editing. Good to see Jeff's website back up too. I noticed that several weeks ago.

*http://talkingstatins.com

Biologist

[Biologist]

Gotts,

I watched an episode of "Mystery Diagnosis" on TV recently. Doctors try to figure out -- usually in a real hurry -- why a patient is sick (and about to "buy the farm"/"kick the bucket"). A high school girl, who is a soccer player, had a bout of major debilitating muscle pain and stiffness during a practice session or game, where she had not eaten for several hours prior to the event. She ended up in the ICU with some super nasty life-threatening symptoms. Many of us on this website could have quickly enlightened the (initially) clueless doctors about her condition. Here was the key for me (and us) where the doctors initially missed the significance: Her urine had suddenly turned very dark at the hospital.

Test question: What's her pathology?

The Answer follows in this post.

By the sound of it, your muscle issues could be genetic and triggered by statins. I would suggest you call Cathy Kern at 716-829-2695. She is screening participants for Dr. Georgirene D. Valdutiu, PhD, principal Investigator for the "Statin Study" at the University of Buffalo. I have spoken with her on the phone. She is real nice, and informative. I may participate myself (while I may not, since I have likely determined the cause of my acute statin attack from the medical literature which indicates it was was triggered by high intensity exercise and a simultaneous course of a tetracycline-class drug along with Zocor -- a combination of which would have brought down a full grown Angus Bull). The study is ongoing and will be for some time (i.e. many months). It is free for you as they will reimburse the cost of you having blood drawn and sending it to them, and they will first send you an information package on the whole deal in the mail at your request. Several people on this forum are participating. If you have positive results, you will be notified. In your case, knowing what the issue is may be real important. They may have the answer for you.

One of the three genetically-orientated (and perhaps "statin triggered") myopathies (i.e., muscle diseases) they are testing for is called "Carnitine PalmitoylTransferase (CPT) II Deficiency.

Answer to the Mystery Diagnosis: Rhabdomyolysis (i.e., massive muscle cell breakdown)

The cellular destruction was necessary to supply the teenaged student's/athlete's body's intense cellular food/energy requirements since she could not feed her cells with her cellular fat reserves (due to a genetic condition) and she had already depleted cellular glycogen (which is the body's cellular storage form of glucose) supplies. She was about to shut down her cellular-debris-clogged kidneys due to her condition which was only unveiled via her extreme physical exertion on an empty stomach.

Her genetic condition?

Carnitine PalmitoylTransferase (CPT) II deficiency


Biologist
__________

BTW, in this thread I mentioned Neoglucogenesis. The more popular (and apparently more correct) term is Gluconeogenesis. And also I suggested that it involves the conversion of fat (in addition to protein) to glucose. At this point I would tend to remove "fat" from that sentence. There are many more references to "protein only" explanations for the conversion. And is this mechanism, in its "runaway form", associated with rhabdomyolysis? Sure. I think so.

[gotts1936]

Biologist,

Thank you for the information. I will contact Cathy Kern. If I get involved I will provide updates.

Gotts

[uncle2blade]

Biologist,

Yes,My doctor has me on Androgel. My doctor is reluctant to give me injections because I'm taking anticoagulants.

Free Testosterone 2.25, % of free testosterone 1.46. Reference range, T free 5.00- 21.00
" T free%, 1.50-4.20

I am 64 years old. I was also an athlete in high school too. and up until my statin damage I ran two miles a day , played a lot of golf, and worked out at the gym three days a week.

What kind of muscle damage did you have, and how much recovery have you had, before and after Testosterone therapy.

Thanks, for your responses, best to you, Craig

PS Any thing else you can tell me about how T Therapy helped would be appreciated. Thanks again, Craig

[gotts1936]

I just finished reading spacedoc's latest book. The problems he has with his legs mirror my leg problems. Todate, I have been taking nine of his 12 supplements. Starting now, I will take all his supplements and see what happens. If my mitochondria pathway does appear to repair itself, I am going to stop being stressed about my inability to do those things I use to do. At 73, how much longer will I live anyways.
Gotts